Signe Dean
Yoko's Asterisk 🏳️⚧The eight most wonderful words you can say on the internet:
" I don't know enough to have an opinion."
Since many people are responding to me from various instances:
I'm obviously not saying you should be neutral/apathetic on transphobia, climate change, or other hot button topics. I'm not a climate scientist, but I listen to climate scientists and let them shape my views.
But because I'm not a climate scientist, if there was a technical question about the mechanics of climate change, I would defer to the experts.
And to use a different example, I don't follow sports. So I don't have any opinions about sports. I also don't have any opinions about 99 percent of celebrities.
Nobody is harmed by me not exposing my ignorance on those topics.
And when it comes to marginalized/stigmatized communities, I listen to the members of those communities and avail myself of whatever resources they offer. I try to boost/support them however I can.
I don't lecture a member of a marginalized group about their own experience, especially if it's a marginalization I don't share.
My general rule of thumb is that marginalized people know more than I do about the challenges they are facing, and I should support them without drowning them out.
Tilly Bridges@charliejane I talked about this very thing in my recent essay on intersectionality, which is not only for cis allies but for us (it was partly spurred by all the racism I’ve found in the white trans woman community) https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTACnUKUY7oBzYTbGi87pOEV4Q5R48_eQ3FH0adQChovMP_J_4YeF9v1z0Q7s4gHVkMbMEwsQkRdysq/pub
System IV, Building K@tillybridges @charliejane And now I have the very useful “intersectionality” framework to proceed with, or more accurately: see things through. I did not have this yesterday, and now I do. Look what you did.
When I say I’m a cishet “ally-in-training” in my profile, welp, this is pretty much the content I’m looking for along the way. Endless gratitude.
@charliejane @goodthinking I’m so glad it was helpful! I’ve written over a hundred of these essays, all archived and free, and one of the main sections is entirely about allyship! if you want to check them out you can find them here 💜 http://tillystranstuesdays.com
Sophie@tillybridges @charliejane intersectionality is a useful (rather long!) word. I’d like to see also a burgeoning of the word “solidarity”. Intersectionality speaks to our differences, (yes, recognize and celebrate!) whereas #solidarity emphasizes our common struggle against social #oppression and economic #exploitation. In linking up our struggles we amplify our strength and turn our focus on the power structures that seek to divide and rule and thwart our unity.
Tammy Garrison, MLIS@charliejane I’m always deeply surprised that people from nonmarginalized groups feel audacious enough to tell marginalized people how they should feel and what their lived life is like. But they’re the same people who explain the expert’s job to them. I shouldn’t be surprised by now.
Agent Joséphine Bakerjust be like Sokrates
Carl (He/Him)@charliejane I have a bad habit of lecturing people. (Former teacher.) I do not, however, lecture people about their own experience, whether they're marginalized or not. There seem to be limits to my foolishness.
Eva Chanda@nitpicking @charliejane I admit I'm a bit of a knowitall (as an editor, I'm probably insufferable on spelling & grammar!), but only about factual things, not lived experiences (other than my own).
William Leisner@charliejane Yeah, it was pretty obvious to me at least.
Nathan Williams (he/him)@charliejane We need to learn better ways of talking in public about what makes someone an expert and how to figure that out when we don’t know enough for ourselves.
AccordionBruce@charliejane
Daring to admit you’re not an expert is brave sometimes and polite almost always
But you’re obviously not implying people are supposed to shut up when it’s important 🙄
Nobody has to fully understand the mechanics of an atrocity to oppose it
I can’t take apart and reassemble many kinds of gun, but if someone is shooting up kids in the classroom, I’ll help push the cops out of the way and break the door down
Abdiel@charliejane True guru-level wisdom in that phrase.
Michael Gemar@charliejane Those definitely *aren’t* the eight most wonderful words. JFC…
@charliejane
I read this as the eight most “powerful“ words
Which is an interesting poser
Frances_Larina 🏳️⚧️Love ya' but I was just fed those words today by someone who could be an ally but doesn't want to risk their neck or potentially burn any privilege. Then they said the issue of Republicans targeting trans teens was "too complicated".
@Frances_Larina In a case like that, I would trust the marginalized people who are involved.
When it comes to other kinds of marginalizations, I often don't know enough myself, but then I listen to the people who are affected directly. It's not that hard.
I wouldn't tell a Black person I know more about anti-Black racism than they do.
@Frances_Larina To bring this home, I'm not really interested in having a cis person lecture me about trans rights.
I'd way rather they say, "I don't know as much as you do, so please share your perspective and I'll support you."
I wish they would say that, as well. But that was my original point, that sometimes they use,
"I don't know enough to have an opinion," as a way of really saying,
"I disagree but realize that would make me seem like a bad person. So I'm going to use this as a coded response instead, to show my disapproval"
Str8nger@Frances_Larina @charliejane No offense but, Is it possible that you are projecting & so defensive that your knee jerk reaction is to be offended, no matter what anyone says?
That's *always* possible, especially for me. Which is why I try to be careful. But in the instance I was referring to, I've known the person my entire life. They are a strict, conservative, Republican-voting Christian. They were also very aware that going on an anti-trans rant would not be socially appropriate.
I didn't mean to do something wrong by stating my objection, and I apologize. I'd like to bow out of this convo if I may, now? I'm a fan of @charliejane, but obviously I've committed a faux pas by being negative. I am sorry for doing so.
@Frances_Larina @charliejane Thank you for sharing/explaining… no need to be sorry. Respectful dialogue & exchange is exactly what we need more of! ✌️
Claire@Frances_Larina @Str8nger @charliejane
You are very respectful and sometimes we don't always know how our words will be interpreted without knowingly wanting to offend.
You are very respectful and sometimes we don't always know how our words will be interpreted without knowingly wanting to offend.
CautionWIP 🎃+🇨🇦+🏳️🌈= 
@Frances_Larina @charliejane That’s a really important exception. It’s frequently used as a cop out by faux-libs/Allie’s and closeted bigots to handwave any responsibility. In those cases, it’s pretty easy to see that if they actually gave a fuck, they’d have long ago read up on the matter sufficiently to form an opinion about it. I agree with Charlie Jane, it’s nice to hear, but it can easily be twisted to cover up a lack of actual care or interest in serious issues.🤷🏽
Oh, I didn't think it was at all, "nice to hear" in that context! I think I probably just didn't word my comment very precisely. My apologies to both of you!
@Frances_Larina @charliejane I don’t think you have anything to apologize for, though I can’t speak for Charlie Jane. (🤗 if appropriate ) It’s a perfectly valid take and particularly understandable in your own situation of just having seen it used so awfully, personally, and recently. Also, I’m sorry you had to experience that. Some people just suck.
@cautionwip @Frances_Larina I think "everybody should have to have an opinion on all topics" would be a horrible rule. I don't have opinions about sports because I don't follow sports.
On the small number of issues where people's lives are at stake, I try to educate myself, but also to listen to people who have direct experience, or who belong to the marginalized communities affected.
I don't think we're actually disagreeing here.
@charliejane @Frances_Larina Ratified, on both points. As far as I read it, Frances (or is it Larena? Apologies if I’m getting it wrong) was noting a very specific application of that statement and its abuse by those who claim to be progressive and potential allies, which is a valid elaboration on your OP and I didn’t see it as a denial, but rather an addition.
@cautionwip @Frances_Larina Yeah, that makes sense.
And honestly, any statement can be used in bad faith and weaponized by evil people to support inaction or wrong action.
@charliejane @cautionwip @Frances_Larina it’s ironic that even your common sense, well-intentioned & non-controversial statement was met with, but that too *could be a bad faith transgression… 🤦🏻♀️
Oh, good. Thank you.
David MarshallThis explains so much about "AI" trained on the internet, where so many don't know enough to have an opinion, but won't let that stop them.
🌬️
@charliejane going to open a github issue for adding this option to every poll automatically. Does double duty to allow for a "show results" button too
I have to disagree, people too get very annoyed with me for giving that response. Maybe not most of the time, but it is rarely appreciated
@imonomi I'd rather not be forced to listen to an uninformed opinion, especially when I might know more than the other person!
Elias Mårtenson@charliejane The older I get and the more I learn, the more I use that phrase.
@loke @charliejane My corollary: The more I know about something, the more I realize I don't know anything!
Lotus 🔞⛓🏳️🌈🐘@charliejane but also a good one for irl too
Bill Bennett@charliejane People sometimes give me a hard time for saying this…. Stuff ‘em.
Roadskater, Ph.D.@charliejane And yet on the internet, that sentence will be followed by,"So here is my opinion anyway." Alas.
jeromekoehler
alexferrie@charliejane closely followed by "but I'm willing to learn"
Ross GreensillThis statement is near always followed by a 'but'......
Elon Musk stick@charliejane the eight words that have never been used on the internet
filobus aka hecatonchiri@charliejane I understand your point, but I may agree only if you take that not too literally
Maybe no one know about something, even an expert. Maybe experts are wrong. And people do have an opinion on everything, even thing they don't know enough because there's a need, a horror vacui, and they need to give a reason to reality they have experience about (even only heard about). And people vote, even if they're not experts, it's democracy.
What's fundamental is the attitude
Maybe no one know about something, even an expert. Maybe experts are wrong. And people do have an opinion on everything, even thing they don't know enough because there's a need, a horror vacui, and they need to give a reason to reality they have experience about (even only heard about). And people vote, even if they're not experts, it's democracy.
What's fundamental is the attitude
Jax@charliejane I do agree, and often stop myself before reacting to check if what i'm about to say is based on anything other than an emotional reaction. However, this statement does need to be followed up with 'so let me go learn some more and come back to you'. But then, i'm an emotional thinker, and have had to train myself to stop and think before reacting based on how it makes me feel for many situations, especially when it's not about me and my feels!
Stefan Scholl@charliejane This is seen as a weakness.
Same as saying you were wrong and changing your opinion after new facts.
Nyoelle@charliejane Truly beautiful.
Sometimes not having enough informations though, causes my brain to loop in circles, and then... headache #_#
Fun times
jorge fernando@charliejane writing should be the bare minimum, but instead makes you based
Bonvolu korekti min@charliejane I usually dont write if this is my position.
Harp 
@charliejane this is a related concept to something which my dad jokingly calls The Yale Intelligence Test (or insert the impressive college of your choice really) -
You pass it if, when someone is talking to you about something technical that is over your head, you are able to go "I don't know that."
The more entrenched in being in love with their own expertise someone is, the more they are unable to admit they don't know about something, the longer they will go blathering on and on in increasing nonsense. And that's how you know you've actually got kind of an idiot eager to show their ass. Not someone actually using their smarts.
But passing with flying colors? "I don't know, but I would love to find out!" And then ideas of how to find it out (research, experts to consult, experiments to try).
This does fall apart a little bit when you move out of the ivory tower and esoteric academic subjects. But I think the point you're really trying to drive home here is the simple humility that is required to really sit down and listen. You've got to stop centering your own ego and your own pride in order to learn. Capitalism and other forces tend to encourage the idea that admitting you don't know is a fate worse than death.
Really, knowing that you don't know is how you actually get ready to learn shit.
Julia, normal person 🍒@charliejane I love saying that even when I do have an opinion but don't want to get into an argument :D
@Juju I really hope you don't do this when speaking up could help vulnerable people tho. I really wasn't advocating for cowardice in the face of bigotry.
@charliejane Obviously not...
I do it when men are shitty and I don't feel like getting into bad faith arguments
I do it when men are shitty and I don't feel like getting into bad faith arguments
@Juju Fair enough. It's also always an option to walk away from shitty dudes, thank goodness....
S.K.Misra@charliejane And throughout all NO ONE started counting from even " 1". What about further March?😂😂