I’ve had the following conversation multiple times.
Person: I don’t want Fediverse search to exist.
Me: But Google is indexing you right now. Why don’t you opt out?
Person: I want to be found.
Me: But you just said you don’t want search of the Fediverse to exist.
Person: Yeah, I don’t want Fediverse-specific search to exist.
Me: Why?
Person: Because that kind of search will be used to harass me. I want to be found by the good people, but not by the trolls.
Personally, I think it’s weird that a giant tech monopoly (Google) gets a pass for indexing the Fediverse, but if a hobbyist wants to build Fediverse search, they are looked upon with suspicion.
This makes no sense.
But I think what people regard as a “search” problem isn’t exactly about search but how search has been used on platforms like Twitter.
People want to be discovered—just not by everyone.
Sometimes I toy with the idea of affinity-based search.
For example, if you tag yourself with “chess” in your bio, your posts will *only* be discoverable by people who also have “chess” in their bio.
To everyone else, you’re invisible.
Google themselves had interesting ideas with visibility (circles).
The problem is that’s not how people naturally think of themselves.
When you talk to your family, you don’t say to yourself, “I’m putting on my ‘family’ persona.”
Personal data are not discrete in socially-networked digital environments. A user who consents to allow access to their profile can expose the personal data of their network connections to non-consented access. Therefore, the traditional consent model (informed and individual) is not appropriate in social networks where informed consent may not be possible for all users affected by data processing and where information is distributed across users. Here, we outline the adequacy of consent for data transactions. Informed by the shortcomings of individual consent, we introduce both a platform-specific model of "distributed consent" and a cross-platform model of a "consent passport." In both models, individuals and groups can coordinate by giving consent conditional on that of their network connections. We simulate the impact of these distributed consent models on the observability of social networks and find that low adoption would allow macroscopic subsets of networks to preserve their connectivity and privacy.
@atomicpoet ah, circles were perfect for me. Because I literally do that thing. I specifically modulate my behavior and words depending on the context and audience.
But I do know most people don’t…
@atomicpoet But that implies people need to define themselves top-down, and they don't see themselves this way.
Also tags (those are tags) change meaning with time, like subreddit names can tell you.
@nonlinear I’m just trying to figure out how to create discoverability for people that don’t want to be found by *everyone*.
I imagine most people won’t care about affinity-based search. But it may help those who want some degree of discoverability.
@atomicpoet Frankly I'd make instance migration better, so instances are actually interest clubs, and let it be decided per instance.
Tho it kinda falls on reddit model, where redditors are exhausted, subreddit meaning changing over time, same shit. But with more servers.
People have little to no control over their own data, and this has led to some very big problems in regards to privacy and digital security. (In Australia we have just had several major hacks and the release of very personal data), this happens all the time, and we just don't get to know about it.
I think your idea of "affinity-based" search, is a good one, don't want to be searched, don't put anything in your bio, want people to find you, go for it.
@JudeNunga @atomicpoet @nonlinear
Not sure how you handle liars? In particular, an unscrupulous person creating accounts with a broad range of affinities to search everyone. Google + handled it by essentially having defined distribution lists. Maybe let tooters define a visibility level?
@fwduewer @atomicpoet @nonlinear
That could work. I removed the check box on recommending my account, on Mastodon. I don't want to be "discovered" or "searched" by random people. I never use my real name online, which is why I don't have a FB account. When they started wanting all sorts of very personal information, for what is basically just a social media platform, the answer was "never".
I'm careful about my privacy and online security.
@atomicpoet @nonlinear
akkoma has the interesting concept of a bubble timeline
I think this could be too limiting. I constantly discover new topics that I am interested in. But then, I also sometimes get caught up in conversations that, in general, belong to a ropic that I don't have an interest in, but that specific conversation is of interest.
I understand. Your last few posts have made me aware that people are getting harassed more than I realize. I have personally had no negative interaction with anyone on Mastodon thus far, which I am thankful for.
It's truly sad that some people spend their days like this.
@atomicpoet People need to be more honest with themselves about this—they only want comments from people *that they like*. It gives off “You can’t sit with us” vibes almost all of the time. What groups like that need is a private Slack instance, or similar. Then they can roam free in their own Biodome, where everyone is as perfect as they are. No dissenting views allowed; good vibes only. Three downvotes gets you a lifetime ban. All applications vetted. 🗑️
I get why, but still…
@stufromoz @atomicpoet @MsPraxis That and this.
Now, these don't apply very well to web search engines because they just see the *web* sites humans see, so for example a thread page with your reply may still be indexed because only the whole page can be opted-out (mastodon sets this based on the selected post of the page i think).
But an ActivityPub search engine would have the ability to fully honor them.
@atomicpoet “suspicion” is probably not the right word.
Also, I find it ironic that some of the most ardent critics of search are those using Akkoma. Which has largely the same search capabilities that the pariahs are trying to build.
@atomicpoet If I can't be searched manually on mastodon, I shouldn't be searched automatically either.
Search by consent is tricky because... Consent whom? A person? A group? An institution?
It becomes yet another list for a person to curate.
Analog realm, things appear and disappear naturally, subconsciously. Forgetting is an algorithm.
When I google my real name, all I get are obituaries, that is fine with me, can't get more undiscoverable than being dead. 😂
@ada It's only a matter of time before Google develops Fediverse search further—anyone who believes otherwise is naïve.
This is also why I bring up comment control as an option to mitigate harassment.
A Person is Smart, People Are Dumb
Chris Trottier
Debbie Wade
Olav
Skean Harshly KC1WKV
Robert Rees
Jane Adams
Gadfly (-booq-)
Linke
Aitor Rosell Torralba
Alex
Kit Rhett Aultman
Emelia 👸🏻
s4if
nonlinear
JudeNunga
Argyle
testing
calc.exe
Stark
Médecine Libre Jérôme Pinguet
Kevin Davidson
Phil Sherry
Cycling Stu
lamp
Mike McCue
Jerry 🦙💝🦙
Max Leibman has moved!
ocdtrekkie
Mostly Harmless (Cam Johnson)
Ada
Laurens Hof
Sameer
paul