Right now, the entire country of Denmark is using 4245MW of electricity.
Windmills are producing: 3442 MW
Solar is producing: 746 MW
So if we do the math, wind + solar = 98.7% of our energy use right now is 100% renewable
Just a reminder that not only can we fix climate change, we are fixing it.
@jameslove @martinvermeer @baekdal
Are you advocating for demolishing skyscrapers? Or are you a hypocrite? Skyscrapers and household cats kill way more birds than wind turbines.
@jameslove @martinvermeer @baekdal
That's fair. Sorry for being aggressive, the bird question has been used disingenuously before, so it is kinda triggering for me.
@sxpert
Well, without wind it would be coal all the time. Also, wind is cheaper. We are stingy people. Norwegian hydro helps a lot also.
Long term: Batteries. Not yet, but soon. Solar and battery parks are already being installed in Denmark on commercial terms.
I should note that Denmark is sunshine poor, and has relatively low electricity prices. And solar+batteries still win. And their price is falling.
Read Casey Handmer to understand the revolution.
@sxpert @baekdal don't make perfect the enemy of the good.
Even if they import fossil fuel power some of the time, they've still lowered their emissions significantly. Ideally we'll get to a zero emission grid, but any progress is good news.
We still need to work on conservation, more sources of power, and lowering emissions from other sources, but this is progress.
@sxpert
The free markets build solar and wind quickly. Nuclear takes a long time that we don't have, and I don't want to pay for it. Still, we should keep existing plants going full throttle.
Nuclear has two great advantages: It's much easier for politicians to control which company gets the money, and it gives fossils a longer lifetime. Money talks.
And, believe it or not, I used to be pro nuclear.
@sxpert
We're supposed to be freezing now, due to lack of Russian gas. Energy prices will come down as we build more renewables. Waiting for nuclear will not help.
I'm personally fine with leaving energy production to the market. Energy distribution infrastructure should be government controlled. And poverty should be fixed through taxes and redistribution. But I'll respect it if the votes break your way.
@baekdal @snoda
@baekdal I remain to be convinced that we can get to absolute zero emissions using current renewables and storage.
To do so requires storage somewhat as cheap and scalable as a coal tip or the gas storage. Backing up 4GW of renewables probably requires 4x24x90GWh of storage. So around 9,000GWh. The global production capacity of current battery technology is expected to reach 2,000GWh per year by 2028.
Denmark is just one relatively small country .
Actually I think that's what the UK learned was necessary after the 1970's energy crises.
And if you think about it, or look at the data, you'll see wind and solar can remain substantially below what's needed for months at a time when there's a season of becalmed weather.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Three months will not be enough in some year, then I guess the gas turbines will have to be lubed quickly.
I'm not arguing we shouldn't decarbonise, quite the opposite.
@JAYT22
Have you factored in overprovisioning and curtailment?
Basically, we should overbuild wind and especially solar (since that's cheaper). Run electrolysis for cehmical products when power is cheap, and have enough to cover ordinary consumption even at low production. Batteries, cables and perhaps burning off electrolytes will cover the last few holes. They'll be nowhere near 90 days.
https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2022/07/22/were-going-to-need-a-lot-of-solar-panels/
It does, though solar is not very productive between October and April in the UK.
This is a very good exploration of the topic, if you can get access to it.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-great-british-power-trip
@baekdal
encouraging progress but you also have to factor in transport fuel and the energy used in manufacture (usually in imports in the west) .. it's not 98.7% of *total* energy use
https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/denmark
this has charts for *energy* use vs *electricty* use ..if i'm reading it right, thats showing electricity is <20% of total energy use (5727kwh/31865kwh per capita)..that tallies with other charts showing the world is >85% fossil fueled
we're still a loong way off being sustainable.
Denmark: Many of us want an overview of how much energy our country consumes, where it comes from, and if we’re making progress on decarbonizing our energy mix. This page provides the data for your chosen country across all of the key metrics on this topic.
@elzdekorte @baekdal the Wikipedia article is unhelpful, listing fossil fuels in Joules and solar in Watts and doesn't even mention wind power under renewables. Unfortunately the references don't help either. Maybe it's my American misunderstanding of the use of commas and periods in numbers, but your original post could help clarify things for international audience if it were 3.4 GW solar. Wiki didn't have wind or consumption numbers.
@elzdekorte
Well, the electricity is sold in the market, and the people that build them make money.
So somehow they must get more energy out than in.
If you bother to look for a life cycle assessment, I'm sure you cand find it.
@baekdal
@cgervasi
Yeah, also my favourite solution. I heard Canada has it, EU is working on something similar. But it's just much easier to get investments through politically. The IRA works in the US, a tax would never have gone through.
The secret here is that renewables are already cheaper, we just need the change to happen fast. Not gonna be a purist about it.
At what cost to the planet?
How will covering the planet in renewable contraptions help to heal the planet from the harmful activities humans do on a daily basis?
It is human activity that has caused the CCrisis.
Why is curtailing those harmful activities not first on the list of solutions?
Instead, it's not even in consideration. No world leader has called for slashing our energy use as of yet.
Wind/solar production ensure business as usual tactics that led to this problem.
Even if we get to the point where renewables energize our grids, there will still be mining, destruction of what little is left of the natural world, more species pushed into extinction, more lands/water polluted/degraded.
Be pro renewables if you want, but at least be honest and say you don't care for the earth as a whole, and that you think we can survive without the life sustaining systems the natural world provides this planet.
Bc we are killing off those systems on a daily basis now. A thousand cuts eventually leads to a mortal wound.
#TippingPoints
#FalseHopes
#Hopium
#ClimateCrisis
#RenewableEnergy
@504DR
Couldn't find the chart I was looking for, but this is good for scale. Renewables get rid of oil and coal, the rest are much smaller. Iron ore is by far the most mined of those, other metals combined is less (not shown). Mining is about to get much less damaging. Also corn ethanol should go.
The post is about Denmark. A lot has been done in Denmark to save energy WITHOUT curtailing the human activities that make us happy.
Which activities specifically would you curtail?
Less bad is still bad.
You've glossed over my points that we are destroying the natural world, which are the very life sustaining systems that keep us and the planet alive and thriving.
You're also ignoring the footprint of producing, placing, maintaining and replacing RE contraptions. All of it requires taking up more land/water space, where our footprint already dominates the planet.
We are in drastic times, and my suggestions are equally as drastic.
End FFs exploration/expansion and ration current reserves.
End flying, except for the most critical.
Put the world on a brewed microbe/plant engineered diet.
End petroleum based plastics, switch to plant engineered alternatives.
Switch from a capitalist based economy to a preservation/sustainable based economy, including ubi systems that pay ppl to not work jobs.
Expand work from home systems.
Promote slowing worldwide human population growth.
These are just starters.
First we have to decide - do we want to heal the planet or do we want humans to be comfortable at the expense of every other living species on the planet?
Future generations won't have that choice if we don't change our current ways of life.
I also think (at least suspect) that any really sustainable society consumes much less energy and other resources than the current ones (at least of industrialized nations or the global mean). We should greatly reduce resource use for any kind of major activity.
Naturally, this goes together with 100% renewable energy.
So, how big can the 100% be? Depends on many circumstances, but for now I'd say the quicker and greater reduction of resource use, the better.
Very good point.
If one is not vegan, all other claims of being an environmentalist are nullified.
The sheer cruelty/suffering of Animal Ag should be enough to steer anyone away from it, and from an environmental perspective, it can be a vital tool in the fight against the CCrisis, providing immediate and meaningful results in curbing GHGs.
But it seems humans have become so hedonistic that any and all suffering is acceptable as long as we are personally satiated for whatever wants/needs we have.
This is more true than ever, as one of (only a few of) our technologies can solve this problem - brewed microbes that can provide the nourishment we need while freeing up land/water space for rewilding.
Loss of habitat is the great driver of modern species's extinction. Rewilding is the fastest, most ethical way of reversing that, imo.
@notsoloud @baekdal I'm Scanian - I will take up arms against the Swedes just like my forefathers when you come calling!
But first we need to build a new nuclear plant in Barsebäck :D
/living close to Barsebäck
@mlaursen
The numbers are current, they change by the minute.
About the production numbers they are definitely what is produced on danish soil. (Or water, whatever)
I'm pretty sure the CO₂ content reflects the current mix of production and import. I couldn't find a source, but I check that page quite often, and the fluctuations seem to match.
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