With respect to @gruber, the best Mastodon app is on Android.
That app is Fedilab.
That's because Fedlab is not a mere Mastodon app but a Fediverse app.
Why is this important?
Because a basic premise of the Fediverse is that apps should talk to each other.
And thus, a *great* client should be able to talk, not just to Mastodon servers, but Pleroma, Pixelfed, Peertube, and Friendica too.
Just like web browsers interact with diverse websites, a Mastodon client should talk to diverse servers.
Now @gruber may say, "Mastodon is the 800 lb. gorilla in the Fediverse ecosystem."
Maybe, but it's nowhere near as dominant as many believe.
According to fediverse.oberserver, there are 21,723 Fediverse instances -- of which there are 11,944 instances.
That means there are 9,779 instances that are *not* Mastodon.
By ignoring all those non-Mastodon instances, 3rd party client devs are ignoring a huge amount of potential in the Fediverse.
Further, devs like @gruber over-estimate the dominance of Mastodon.
Certainly, in terms of the Fediverse, Mastodon is huge.
But PeerTube and Pixelfed are nothing to sneeze at either.
PeerTube has 306,337 users. That's not as many as Mastodon.
But PeerTube's userbase isn't anything to sneeze at either.
What's more, just like Mastodon, PeerTube could grow. Especially if a black swan event happens with YouTube -- which is feasible!
Another thing @gruber perhaps doesn't consider is that Mastodon isn't the only Fediverse platform that's growing.
Pixelfed more than doubled it's userbase during the past year.
* Feb 2022: 73,100 users
* Feb 2023: 153,486 users
This is despite the fact that there was no Instagram migration!
So why are so many mobile devs just ignoring Pixelfed?
Here's a chart that shows the growth of Pixelfed over the past year.
A further consideration for @gruber: Mastodon's dominance of the Fediverse is unlikely to last forever.
Tumblr is joining. So is Flickr. Post even said they will be integrating ActivityPub.
How well will these apps be playing with the rest of the Fediverse? I don't know.
But the argument that Mastodon should be the primary consideration because it is the largest won't even be true in 2023.
Here's a dose of sobriety for everyone who thinks "Fediverse = Mastodon".
Last I checked 44% of the web runs on WordPress.
What happens if even a fraction of these websites install the ActivityPub plug-in?
Suddenly, WordPress becomes the dominant Fediverse platform.
People aren't even considering future black swan events with Big Social.
What if TikTok gets banned? What if Google shuts down YouTube? What if Meta so royally screws up Instagram that users suddenly leave?
I hesitate to even call these "black swan" events because they're actually more likely than not.
Well, if these events happen, more people will migrate to the Fediverse.
But this time, they probably won't be using Mastodon.
Now again, let's consider why Fedilab is the best mobile app for Mastodon:
1. It is open
2. It does not suffer from myopia
3. It considers future possibilities
4. It integrates different Fediverse platforms in one way the celebrates federation itself
5. It does this all in an intuitive manner
A challenge for iOS-centric devs who follow @gruber: build an iOS app like Fedilab.
Again, for people who don't understand the problem: consider the purpose of the Fediverse.
It is based on open protocols -- much like the web.
It has server implementations -- much like the web.
It *should* have general clients -- and that's where the wheels kind of fall off.
@atomicpoet man I'm sorry to keep arguing with you but *why*? Why do I need one app that does a compromised job at everything instead of specialized apps that exactly fit the task at hand?
Consider IG. One of its STRENGTHS is that it's so awful as a discussion platform. It would be AWFUL if someone slapped a Twitter style front end on IG and now everyone is using it to fight about politics. Imagine if Spotify had Twitter style discussion bolted onto it?
App diversity *is decentralization.*
@kellumdander I disagree that Instagram is good. In fact, it's a dumpster fire.
Consider what you can't do on Instagram:
1. Send a hyperlink in your post
2. Upload a picture from a desktop computer
3. Opt out of ads
Instagram is the very worst of walled garden centralized social media. It is not worth emulating in any sense or form.
The Fediverse, by contrast, is the anti-Instagram. Mastodon talks to Pixelfed which talks to PeerTube which talks to Lemmy.
@atomicpoet I'll try to say it again. A STRENGTH of Instagram is that it does not support the sort of argument we're having right now. That's a GOOD THING for that platform. It would be bad for Instagram, or any decentralized competitor platform, to make it easier to argue and fight on other people's photo feeds.
Conversely, it's a GOOD THING that we can argue and fight here, because discussion is the entire point of this platform.
There's a primary distinction that's missing here: an "insta" isn't the same thing as a “personal photo” isn't the same as a "selfie" isn't the same as a "portrait", even when it might come from the same set of bytes.
It's up to client software to present to users the data in ways that are semantically appropriate and expected, and up to the back end to know when those things are the same.
@godofbiscuits @kellumdander Is it? That’s been a common complaint about old school Instagram users for awhile. Many of them left the platform because it went from being about the art of photography to being about expressing aspiration.
One reason I run my own Pixelfed instance is because it gives me freedom that Instagram lacks.
@LarsFosdal Take a look at the W3C's spec on ActivityPub:
https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#client-to-server-interactions
Now ideally, clients should build on a uniform W3C spec.
But in practice, platforms like Pleroma use Mastodon's API.
@LarsFosdal Such is the purpose of my thread: IMO, the best thing that can happen is if general Fediverse clients (like Fedilab) get widely adopted -- and then gain popularity.
The next best thing is if the W3C updates their C2S spec to include new features currently handled by APIs. I say next best thing because I think that will only happen if there's a demand for general clients.
Have tried Fedilab yesterday for the first time and apart from its Fediverse openness, it also also just happens to offer a very clean interface for Mastodon. Happy to use either Tusky or Fedilab on Android.
@lime_juice_cube @atomicpoet @gruber
Not sure! Tusky is a bit more natural for core Mastodon use. Fedilab has extra features and it goes beyond Mastodon. Tusky's interface is more minimalist and feels cleaner. In Tusky, I don't think about the interface and focus on actual posting, which is how it should be. Both let you use your "Lists" as proper timelines, which is important to me. Fedilab visually shows different reply-levels in threads, super helpful. Both are great, happy to use either.
@lime_juice_cube @the_roamer @atomicpoet @gruber
Depends on your personal taste and needs.
Both #Tusky and #Fedilab are good apps.
#Tusky is a classic one for #Android, #Fedilab offers some special features.
You can install both and use them in parallel, no problem. Then decide yourself how to go on.
@abid A YouTube user will probably migrate to PeerTube.
An Instagram user will probably migrate to Pixelfed.
A Reddit user will probably migrate to Lemmy.
So on and so forth.
As for your last question, it is exceedingly unlikely that Big Social will implement ActivityPub because their reason to exist is to control the network effect.
true.
#fediverse is, or should be, web 2 done right.
Throught truly open protocols like #activitypub and #rss, and mandatory interoperability for all new services.
@atomicpoet
I'm curious to see if Tumblr and Flickr would keep following through those plans, considering that those statements were made while Mastodon adoption had exponentially increased activity versus the stabilization we have had.
Furthermore if those plans pan through, I am curious to see if their platform approaches end up going for one giant instance instead of multiple smaller ones. One that would be unwieldy to moderate against as a monolithic all-or-nothing block of majority users.
@antimnguyen Mastodon adoption is still increasing at a breakneck pace. It added 350,000 accounts in January.
For perspective, Mastodon only had 375,000 MAUs in April 2022.
@atomicpoet There are around 500 Wordpress with AP plugin and around 10,000 Mastodon servers.
Wordpress is not appearing between ten most used softwares but Mastodon is the first one, by far.
Let's see what happen in the future but seems is not easy to beat Mastodon.
Adjunt: 3 imatges #fediverse alive servers stats alive servers: 17,186 (+0) max: 17,186 total MAU: 1,657,390 (+13,556) max: 2,444,236 top ten (MAU / servers): :mastodon: 1,519,913 / 9,822 :peertube: 25,091 / 1,069 :pleroma: 17,235 / 1,270 :fedibird: 13,233 / 3 :pixelfed: 12,926 / 95 :hometown: 5,266 / 136 :misskey: 3,079 / 398 :friendica: 2,353 / 112 :diaspora: 1,988 / 8 :activity-relay: 1,571 / 12
@spla You're missing the point.
This is not about *now*, it's about the *future*.
It takes a mere plugin install to turn a large chunk of the world's websites into Fediverse instances.
Think about that.
@spla Except:
1. The Fediverse should be cooperative, not competitive
2. Not only will it be easy to "beat" Mastodon when it comes to raw account numbers, that is inevitable this year when Tumblr joins the Fediverse
All excellent points. Plus, Mastodon really feels a lot like a reimplementation of stuff we've seen before, not a re-imagining of what could be, based of the lessons of what came before. I think we've seen this happen enough times to say that those are rarely the things which win in the long term.
It's great that it exists and was here when we needed it. But we should look beyond.
@atomicpoet I’m only just starting my discovery phase in this whole space but it’s incredible really.
Having just watched this video and using Pixelfed it’s clearer how things connect via ActivityPub.
https://peertube.cpy.re/w/sWxgbBUu1ScQkHqz831Qqi
It seems like it would make a lot of sense for businesses to host their own instances. Eg a set of mastodon, Pixelfed and peertube instances. Official channels with control over assets etc.
Can you see the negatives of this?
@stwhite @gruber Yes, it can be very confusing when someone is using Pleroma with a Mastodon front-end. They try to log into @ivory or @[email protected], and they're told that they're not using Mastodon.
But to the user, it looks like their account is on Mastodon.
You misunderstand the business model:
and so on ...
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