Nathan SnelgroveFeb 1, 2023

Love @gruber’s take on this: https://daringfireball.net/2023/01/meanwhile_over_in_androidtown

I was just trying to explain this to a friend who couldn’t believe I was “an Apple fanboy.” (I’m a UX and web designer for a living, so come on.) Gruber says it much better than I do.

Meanwhile, Over in Androidtown

Spending a few hours perusing the state of the art in Android Mastodon clients gives me the distinct impression that Android is forever stuck in its Window 3.x era of UI polish and design. It’s rough.

Daring Fireball
Joseph CurranFeb 2, 2023
Show threadJohn Gruber
@nathansnelgrove One thing I learned long ago is that people like us who prioritize design, UI, and UX can empathize with and understand the choices made by people who prioritize other factors (e.g. raw feature count, or software being free-of-charge). But it doesn't work the other way: most people who prioritize other things can't fathom why anyone cares deeply about design/UI/UX. Thus they chalk it up to being hypnotized by marketing or something.
Feb 1, 2023 at 5:29pmWeb
Show threadNathan SnelgroveFeb 1, 2023
@gruber I've never thought about it that way, but I think you're on to something!
Show threadMarcFeb 2, 2023
@gruber @nathansnelgrove Hypothetical question John: If you were hiring a UI/UX designer for a non-phone project (e.g. web), and during the interview process you notice they have an Android phone, would that impact your view of them and whether they’d be a good designer?
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 2, 2023
@imarc @nathansnelgrove It would raise an eyebrow but I’m sure the interview itself would clarify whether they have game or not.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 2, 2023
@imarc @nathansnelgrove It wouldn’t be a deal-breaker.
Show threadAndreas SikkemaFeb 2, 2023
@gruber @imarc @nathansnelgrove Personally I would say that “It works with Chrome, so why bother” would be a much bigger problem.
Show threaddeutrinoFeb 2, 2023
@imarc WOW
@gruber @nathansnelgrove
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 2, 2023
@imarc @nathansnelgrove I've thought about this some more. I'd probably ask. What I'd like to hear is a cogent explanation why. I'd find that interesting. If instead the answer were “All the apps I use are the same on iOS and Android and I like the way this phone looks", the interview would end shortly.
Show threadMarcFeb 3, 2023
@gruber It would be interesting. Material Design did have some original ideas. I've not used Android for a few years, but the hardware back button and overflow menu never felt right.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 4, 2023
@imarc Hardware back button crippled the platform for years.
Show threaddaniel s.Feb 2, 2023
@gruber @nathansnelgrove you haven't mentioned material design, which is imo what's really to blame for the homogenization of ui on android devices. just on aesthetics alone, compared to swift ui, material design is boring and uninspired. but it's easy to build quickly and that's the draw.
Show threadSörenFeb 2, 2023
@selfagency @gruber @nathansnelgrove I would argue macOS Ventura System Settings, too, looks “boring and uninspired”. Oddly, Windows 11’s Settings wins this round, IMHO
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 2, 2023
@selfagency @nathansnelgrove The problem is far beneath that level. Most of the Android apps I see don't even use Material Design. And I'm happy to sing the praises of Google's own Chrome, which does.
Show threadgregopetFeb 2, 2023
@gruber @nathansnelgrove Well we often honestly don't see the difference. I don't care about looks but I can appreciate that someone does. So when I see an app that seems to spend some UX effort I will happily send it to a colleague. But my comment "this looked nice" often gets replied with "are you kidding? There's too much whitespace and the colours are too saturated and lol at the font choice and everything is just inconsistent anyway ...." Sorry? Wouldn't have sent it if I saw all that 😁
Show threadLinda Dong 💕Feb 2, 2023
@gruber @nathansnelgrove I’m more than a decade into my design career, Product Design has blossomed into a huge industry and line of study - and still I continue to stave off “it’s just about making things look pretty” on a daily basis
Show threadJustin MaxwellFeb 2, 2023
@gruber @nathansnelgrove for a long while that was the case though. MacOS and iOS both went through some pretty dark times in the 10s. There was a point in 2012-13 where I’d replaced all my iOS core apps with the google versions. And apple attempted to hide inferior core utility with product kitsch. Those folks had a point then. And I switched to android for a while because of it. Things really changed w apple over the past three years.
Show threadstilescrisisFeb 2, 2023
@gruber @nathansnelgrove I actually don't think I agree with this take. I tried Android for a year and basically all of the apps I use existed on Android, and looked nearly identical to the iPhone version. Maybe I'm just less into niche apps. iMessage, FaceTime, face unlock, and the Apple CPU performance brought me back to iPhone though.
Show threadDomFeb 2, 2023
@gruber that DF post on this topic was 👌🏼
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 3, 2023
@gruber Interesting that in the list of "other factors" you didn't list "respecting people using our products enough to let them make their own choices", which has always been my primary criticism of the my-way-or-the highway approach that has been the hallmark of Apple's design, UI/UX philosophy for over a decade.
Show threadJake RobbFeb 3, 2023
@maks @gruber “interesting that you didn’t undermine your point entirely with a barely-tangential, half-considered point.” 🧐🧐
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 4, 2023
@maks I’d say that falls under the “system level tinkering” or whatever words I used that I did mention.
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 4, 2023
@gruber To me your article starts from an assumption that the look & feel of the iOS apps "style" (for lack of better word), the "liviness", is something everyone wants, it's right there in your use of "table stacks". But I would argue thats just an ascetic design preference that you currently hold, maybe others preferred the skeuomorph fad that's now come & gone. My point was that I wouldn't judge Android or iOS app ecosystem just by my *personal* design tastes.
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 4, 2023
@gruber PS. I and at least a few others, have a soft spot for brutalist architecture.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 4, 2023
@maks I have a soft spot for brutalist architecture, done right, too. I was trying to describe Android from its own perspective.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 4, 2023
@maks Android apps aren’t just designed with a different style. They’re more crude.
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 5, 2023
@gruber crude? As in missing features or UI design choices? Pretty much every commercial Android app project I've worked on over the last decade has had feature parity with its iOS counterpart so that's certainly not my experience in Android ecosystem. In regards to design choices, well as I said that's a deeply personal thing, so that's why I advocate for as much variety of choices for people as possible.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 5, 2023
@maks Show me the Android apps that should make iPhone users jealous.
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 6, 2023
@gruber *sigh* buts that my whole point, its such a personal thing: show me the iOS apps that will make *me* jealous.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 6, 2023
@maks Ivory, Fantastical, Tot, NetNewsWire, Carrot Weather, Overcast. That’s just from my first home screen.
Show threadJohn GruberFeb 6, 2023
@maks If you have no taste, I can’t help you.
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 6, 2023
@gruber That's the thing with taste, one man's meal is another's compost.
Show thread🇺🇦 Maksim Lin 💙Feb 6, 2023
@gruber Or to put it less colloquially, given the huge range in peoples tastes in: food, music, literature, fashion, visual arts, architecture, hobbies, etc, I am actually very surprised that you would hold the view that your personal tastes in UI design would be more universally held than in all those other fields of subjective human creative endeavour.