Republican Sen. Josh Hawley is calling for a TikTok ban.
This is a day after another Republican, Sen. Marco Rubio, published an OpEd in Fox News also pushing for a ban.
To be sure, these Republicans care very little about TikTok's surveillance of users.
Their problem is that, unlike Meta or Twitter, TikTok is not an American company.
Nevertheless, I personally think surveillance capitalism should be banned wholesale on all social networks.
I really hope that progressives turn off the lizard brain response of "TikTok is good because Republicans say it's bad."
No, TikTok is bad.
The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.
Is their opposition based on nationalism, racism, and yellow peril? Probably.
Is TikTok still monitoring and tracking teenagers, feeding them unhealthy content based on "relevancy" algorithms, screwing with their mental health? Yes.
All surveillance capitalism should be banned.
The more thoughtful progressive response to the eventual TikTok ban is to say:
"Hey Republicans, you're right about TikTok. But let's go further than TikTok. Let's ban all surveillance, user tracking, and black box algorithms from ALL social media -- including with American-owned companies!
"And while we're at it, let's dismantle all Big Tech monopolies, especially the ones building walled gardens that lock users into their platforms!"
The cold reality is that TikTok will be banned.
I've seen this play out with other Chinese companies. Perfect example is Huawei.
First, the US intelligence community raises alarms about security.
Then branches of the US government start to ban the tech made by these Chinese companies.
Finally, there's a wholesale ban of the tech being sold to or used by consumers.
Regarding TikTok, this is yet another weakness of Big Tech. What happens should it be banned?
Many folks are saying, "We need to build a federated TikTok clone!"
That can't exactly happen because TikTok's *reason* to exist is surveillance. Its algorithms work because it watches everything you do, and thus collects data on you.
However, what we need to do is build federated platforms for audio and video.
Some already exist, but they're works in progress.
Regardless, we need more.
@atomicpoet @paninid anywhere I can read more about solutions?
My current best thought has been to use an IPFS version for storage and distribution. It also supports a VM for processing.
This also gives a tool for cost distribution. Readers are also sharers. The accounts that help host and distribute get visible credits on their profiles.
But I'd love to hear other variants
@smellsofbikes As someone who runs a Pixelfed instance, it's okay for image sharing -- not so good for audio/video.
Peertube is better because it uses WebTorrent.
But more work needs to be done to lower the cost of distribution.
@atomicpoet TikTok is optimized for user addiction. That's great for surveillance and advertising. Users _crave_ it, but it's arguably bad for them.
So, what would a federated version even look like? For me removing dark UI patterns that exist purely to drive engagement and extract value from users is a major goal of federated alternatives.
@atomicpoet having gotten over my TikTok addiction in June of last year... yeah. 🤣 The algorithm it uses is pretty fierce. 🤣
But there is something to be said for a service that has video, is controlled by a person not a corporation/government, and is infinitely entertaining. Imagine #Caturday, but with portrait videos for days upon days on end! 😹
@atomicpoet Possibly related: US government is going after Google over monopolism in online ads. Since those ads are based on surveillance...
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0124/1351650-us-google-antitrust/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/24/us-says-google-unlawfully-dominates-ad-industry-in-lawsuit
Do we "need more" ? I don't think we do, humans have a great deal of difficulty in determining what is a "need", and what is a "want".
Some might want more platforms, but "need" , not IMO. Less noise would be great.
@atomicpoet I really think the conversation needs to start from: who are the customers and what problems do they have that need solving? For example:
1) content creators probably (this is off-the-cuff) want a platform that allows them to easily create and distribute to a fan base they can build
2) consumers probably want to be entertained, discover, follow those they like, feel included in a groups or movements, etc.
3) both groups probably want to limit how their data is used
4) whoever is funding wants what? (Different if a company, non-profit, federation)
With user research, which very likely exists out there, a product can be designed and justified. I’d not want to start from the assumption that a clone of TikTok is the answer
@atomicpoet Here’s a tough nut to crack @scottjenson. How could an “easily shareable and discoverable short form video fediverse app” work from a UI perspective?
What kind of assumptions are people making because “that’s how TikTok does it”, instead of “what would a persona want out of a service like that”.
I don't think there should be a tiktok clone for the simple reason it only exists to addict you. As pointed out by atomic poet , that requires much different data collection. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it should be
@scottjenson @atomicpoet Agreeing about that. We shouldn’t want the “we are the product” social media.
But just as mastodon has similarities and differences to Twitter, I’m curious of what a user focused short video service could be. Because watching short videos isn’t bad in and by itself.
Or is it unsalvageable? Pretty theoretical for me since I’ve never used tiktok.
(I’m generally against anything intended to give others addictions on purpose, especially for money.)
I have, and it really is a shockingly effective addictive attention death spiral.
I'm happy to consider a short video service! It just is important to consider that it would probably be far less engaging, probably more like Instagram than anything else, which could be fine!
However, given the significantly higher data storage costs, it's important to ask how self-hosting would actually play out.
@scottjenson @atomicpoet I kinda scoffed at it in the past, but the idea of ephemeral short videos might be an interesting idea now. Sometimes good ideas come at the wrong time.
In fact I spend too much time on social media (due to Mastodon), so a non addiction in-out, enjoy in short bursts, social media might be the ticket. Something that forces away the “have to keep up” FOMO.
(Reminds me of the weapon breaking in Breath of the Wild. Smart mechanic to positively push the player.)
@Rairii It can happen. The bad guys don't always win.
Let's not be technological nihilists.
@atomicpoet Exactly. The limit to that approach, for many people who self-label as "progressive", is that they're ok with surveillance and espionage techniques when they're State-driven.
To ban all surveillance means ALL surveillance. In a society with a dense enough social & relational fabric, woven horizontally, tracking emails, servers & web users behaviors must disappear.
@arush Again, let's dial down the "never".
If you believe nothing will happen, that just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Change can happen, and it has happened.
Banned is useful for prosecuting when they find ways around the ban.
Should be paired with "cripple surveillance capitalism"
#TackyTick is freaking hideous.
I hated them from the moment I first saw their stupid flashy icon in the corner of a video on Zuckbook years ago.
Yes, THIS. I don't use it and in recent weeks I will not click on anything that has a tiktok featured---honestly, 90% of what I see is people doing dumb stuff of just creating content. Nope. Not gonna fall for it.
@atomicpoet I think the part that strikes me as being tremendously tricky in regards to TikTok is the fact that on the one hand, yes... TikTok is a surveillance app.
But on the other, whether we like it or not, TikTok is also viewed as a creative outlet and a source of community for many of the users who are posting videos there. It's easy to dismiss it all as banality and commercialism, because indeed most that floats to the top of it is.... There are plenty of thriving communities of people who aren't chasing trends, just talking about their lives same as we are on the Fediverse, they're just using video and TikTok was the most easeful platform to do so on. Hell, one of my oldest Internet friends met her wife on TikTok through finding a thriving community of over 40 lesbians on there.
My fear is that what will get lost in the shuffle is the fact that while we're busy crusading surveillance capitalism, we're also alienating groups of people who are going to perceive these efforts as curtailing their right to freedom of speech, especially if alternatives are not available.
And given that the Republicans are leading the charge on that effort at the moment.... it's VERY likely it will be perceived among the populous that way.
@atomicpoet yeah it's like,
1) TikTok has a lot of really questionable shit about it, but
2) Their concern here is entirely protectionist and nationalist, so also fuck that, and
3) Maybe US lawmakers should primarily be concerned with regulating US companies
@atomicpoet and, just to stay on Social Networks, someone could say that fucker what Instagram does for girls around the World
Sorry the rant
@atomicpoet Matches nicely with the government-enforced mandatory freeze peach.
"We want all social media under US control."
@wakame True.
But also, TikTok should be banned.
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