niduyam
Andi Popp 🇺🇦🎗️
Because it has to be repeated again and again: We need to drastically reduce the number of cars to solve our problems.
Man, this post is blowing up. And it's just a memefication of one of @BrentToderian 's statements 😅
Ok, this is too much. Looks like I have to mute this thread 😅 Sorry and thanks for to widespread reception.
🇪🇺Grey08 🇩🇪🇬🇧@AndiPopp than drastically invest in public transportation outside of cities…. The people there have no chance without cars…
@Grey08 Yes, this is a part of it. But increasing living density is also part of the equation. Many "non-city" areas are surprisingly unsustainable.
@AndiPopp there a minor problems first of all rental prices are insane in the city. Most people can’t effort that. Than not all people are capable to live in a city where it will be never dark or silent enough to sleep with a open window.The quality of life is also worse in a city and that will not change with les cars because there are not enough plants in a city. Also wind will be a problem between the “skyscraper” see NYC. There a many other social problems when you cram people in dens areas.
@Grey08 A few things to unpack. I give you the point of the rental prices, everything else I must kindly disagree.
The worse quality of life is not inherent to cities, but because people living in rural areas drive into cities: https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8
People living in rural areas (who are financially and ecologically subsidized by city dwellers) create the problem they decry in the first place.
This does not mean everyone needs to live in Manhattan, but maybe at least Koblenz.
Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud
Daniël Franke 🏳️🌈@AndiPopp @Grey08 To add to Andi's points.
"Not enough plants in a city", how about we plant plants in 30% of the parking spaces? 40%?
Skyscrapers suck, and are a dead end, better to have medium rise and low rise blocks, better on every metric.
Noise: most noise comes from cars. You'd be very surprised how quiet cities are without the constant noise of cars driving around.
Light: This is a problem, but I bet that if we thought about it a bit longer, we can think of something.
hartreefox@ainmosni @AndiPopp @Grey08
Light is the big problem. I work at a university that does large amounts of agricultural research and without some pretty heroic engineering you have to use electricity to generate enough light for a city area to feed itself. That requires land to generate (wind, solar or hydro), unless you use fossil fuels to generate it and the problems there are obvious. Can such things be done? Sure. You have to accept the trade offs though.
Light is the big problem. I work at a university that does large amounts of agricultural research and without some pretty heroic engineering you have to use electricity to generate enough light for a city area to feed itself. That requires land to generate (wind, solar or hydro), unless you use fossil fuels to generate it and the problems there are obvious. Can such things be done? Sure. You have to accept the trade offs though.
Paul Wermer, CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
Andreas, DJ3EI, he/himOur Western automobile-focused culture is unsustainable on a planetary scale. The global ecosystem would collapse if all people owned and used cars like we in the West do.
Any statements regarding "most people" or "all people" should take that into account.
Major branches of ethics require you to make exactly such statements. (Read Kant, for example.)
@AndiPopp
@Grey08
MichaLäuft@Grey08 @AndiPopp
Lower rents get cut directly by owning one ore more cars. I might pay some more rent, but living in the countryside you'll pay 400 bucks for each car per month (insurance, gas, repair costs, loss of worth over time etc) most families having 2-3 cars is a ridiculously high amount of wasted money.
Most city dwellers don't need one. There is reasonable public transport and distances are short and walkable/ cyclable.
Lower rents get cut directly by owning one ore more cars. I might pay some more rent, but living in the countryside you'll pay 400 bucks for each car per month (insurance, gas, repair costs, loss of worth over time etc) most families having 2-3 cars is a ridiculously high amount of wasted money.
Most city dwellers don't need one. There is reasonable public transport and distances are short and walkable/ cyclable.
@Micha @AndiPopp yeah that's sure applied to everyone outside a city. Nope,still one car (12 Years the same),still under 400 bucks a month for maintenance costs, can sell it to the same price i bought it, half the "rent" as in a city,walk to the near supermarket for food and other things you need of a daily bases. So living in a village outside a city doesn't mean i will buy 3 or more cars. >.> It's the same discussion as LED pops up "The will buy more lights because lower power consumption.
Jan@AndiPopp @Grey08 While this is correct, from an activist perspective it is much better to focus on private vehicles in urban areas. Because there, the benefits of removing vehicles and thus freeing public space for other activities are obvious to most people and the consequences of not owning a car are much less severe than in rural areas.
Wrap02@AndiPopp @Grey08
Are you assuming you can roboticize the farm work and or turn the cities into vertical farm blocks? There are problems with many of those ideas. Where I work does a good bit of research on automating farming, but it's still a long way off. The vertical farms have some serious energy problems due to the use of lighting in them unless you use mirror systems to redirect sunlight. (continued:)
Are you assuming you can roboticize the farm work and or turn the cities into vertical farm blocks? There are problems with many of those ideas. Where I work does a good bit of research on automating farming, but it's still a long way off. The vertical farms have some serious energy problems due to the use of lighting in them unless you use mirror systems to redirect sunlight. (continued:)
Ministry of EV(6) 🚗🔌🔋⚡️💪 🚴@AndiPopp @Grey08 The people living in villages and rural areas, the forgotten people apparently in this worldview. Everyone lives in the city, then The Wall in SA must be pretty much the big dream? My village is almost 2,000 years old, the oldest building here is from around 1300. It shows quite a modernist arrogance to throw ancient forms of society into the trash like this. https://youtu.be/3xPac81D4Kw
Video reveals 170-kilometre-long mirrored skyscraper The Line in Saudi Arabia
KowalskiFlausn 🏳️⚧️
Flüpke
khroesing@khroesing @AndiPopp It's a fact not a excuse. With such an answer like that i can see where the discussion would go with you.
Justin Derrick@AndiPopp Car companies can save themselves by moving to electric mass transit. Electric trucks are great, but until we make electric busses at scale, and expand public transit accordingly, transport will still be a major component to climate change.
vier@AndiPopp imagine everyone would just walk
S.P.Zeidler@AndiPopp what would save the planet even better would be village shops. It doesn't matter how many ICE trains connect cities well for me, I do not need a car to drive long distance, I need a car to haul food home. 50 years ago the village I live in still had two shops selling the basic needs stuff.
Efficiently organized delivery could be another option (of the "take orders for an entire street, deliver to that street in one trip" variant)
Efficiently organized delivery could be another option (of the "take orders for an entire street, deliver to that street in one trip" variant)
Thomas H Jones IITrue... But it's a lot quicker to electrify the automobile fleet than to (re-)expand the rail-systems that have been destroyed (in the US) over the last century.
Der schwule Geist vom Jörg
Nuit@AndiPopp no, we need to drastically reduce the number of assholes with billions of dollars and a private jet. When the 1% have done their part then we can see what the common people have left to do.
maddie (MOVED!) 
@AndiPopp but the public believes electric cars are better than the environment than gasoline cars, so nothing's going to change
mrv@AndiPopp kids should get a bike for einschulung paid for by the taxpayers. there should be classes to teach them how to ride it. not owning a car should be rewarded. cities should ban / limit cars or at least require manufacturers to add geofencing so max speed has a hard limit of <= 30 km/h. car sharing or renting needs to be more economical. using the autobahn should cost a fee. public transportation should be free…
Chilly Dee Williams@AndiPopp I can't say enough how often I would use a train that would get me from Cleveland to Detroit to visit my family. It seems insane to me that I can drive that in 3 hours but it's 16 hours via Amtrak or I can do it in 4 hours if I ride a bus AND a train.
I am BEGGING somebody, anybody, for a new train service!
I am BEGGING somebody, anybody, for a new train service!
Zoe Duckling@AndiPopp
Honestly fossil fuel cars are better than electric ones in a pollution sense of view. But trains are definitely the solution, unfortunately they are not extended enough around and are VERY expensive to travel with.
Honestly fossil fuel cars are better than electric ones in a pollution sense of view. But trains are definitely the solution, unfortunately they are not extended enough around and are VERY expensive to travel with.
Tim Smalley@AndiPopp so true. My main issue in adopting public transport as a means of travel for work is that most of my work isn't near stations, bus services are infrequent, unreliable and expensive. Also, as a photographer, I carry a lot of equipment.
Keith_RGot to agree, Tim. I'm a wildlife photographer, and an angler: I can't (God knows I've tried) rely on public transport for either of these in my part of the world - SE Northumberland, England.
I've lived in 5 large towns (not in-the-sticks hamlets) in my 62 years, and NOT ONE of them was on the UK rail network.
Buses? Desperately unreliable, and none go anywhere I'd want to.
I ride an e-bike, but it can't get me and my kit ANYWHERE NEAR places I want to visit.
Cătă 🇷🇴🇺🇦🇲🇩🇪🇺@timsmalley If your work involves moving between random various places then public transport really is not quite an alternative, sometimes you need to go to a place not even a single bus gets, and that's fine*. But so many people are actually working in offices, and they drive their cars from the place they live in to some random business district in their city, driving up traffic jams along with them. For those people, public transit is definitely an option.
*edit: and an electric vehicle really is your only alternative to reduce pollution in this situation
@AndiPopp
*edit: and an electric vehicle really is your only alternative to reduce pollution in this situation
@AndiPopp
Mboya@AndiPopp someone explain to me how reducing cars can save the world?
Looks preposterous.
If I come up with a car industry that is environment friendly, would you still insist on reducing my productivity?
Abid@AndiPopp Not "We", but "Them" = gready capitalists
yuvipanda@AndiPopp ICE that i can get behind
Mahbub Hasan@AndiPopp Public transport should get the same agile innovation as other modes of transportation
Bård H. (lvl 49 🇳🇴)Why does it have to be one or the other?
I'd absolutely love to see more high speed trains! But most of the stuff I use my car for is local transport. A train would be of absolutely no use for that.
(And I already try to keep it off the roads as much s possible, by using public transports instead.)
Trains should be developer as the better option to planes. The car problem needs completely different solutions.
Sami Seppo FI (+EN)@AndiPopp In the 1800's robber barons gathered their vast fortunes with railroads.
Then the oil industry emerged to maximaze the use of their product to gather even bigger fortunes.
The spread of private cars in places like China, to replace even the most practical common sense bicycling, was insane in environmental sense,
...but logical in greed-wise business sense.
Paul Jessup@AndiPopp Yes! We need a better infrastructure for public transportation.
Harry Callahan@AndiPopp good luck. China & India are the world's next daily driving population.
Stefan Schmidt
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote
scott f@AndiPopp Gotta keep saying it. I just read a 2,000 word piece about California's coming struggle to electrify all its cars via clean energy and how implausible it is the state will achieve it. The article did not mention public transportation or bicycles once.
Feth 🎉@AndiPopp We don't need high speed trains at all.
We need fast trains for populated locations; high speed trains cause desertification and high pricing.
We need fast trains for populated locations; high speed trains cause desertification and high pricing.
@fluepke Where I live (France), high speed railways are huge impassable noisy gaps in the landscape.
We have the inconvenience, we don't have the stations.
For instance, if I take the high speed train to Lyon, it means going to Paris by fast train, changing train station, taking the high speed train and... seing my town again at 250km/h 2 hours and half after I left it.
@ffeth @AndiPopp France and its focus on Paris … as if Paris was the center of the world …
In Germany we are slowly but steadily growing our HSR network, that interconnects major cities. It's more of a mesh than a star topology. Between any two larger cities there is a direct HSR connection, which is awesome.
@ffeth @AndiPopp here's an inofficial (but gorgeous) map of our network: https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/etele7/ich_habe_als_privates_projekt_ein_liniennetzplan/
@fluepke Normal passenger trains already cover a distance of 1000km a day, 1000 other km in the night; it's huge and we're still not satisfied…
They ripped moutains apart for the sake of taking 10 minutes out Paris-Strasbourg, making people in between lose time and princing the ticket higher.
I have a feeling that keeping places at a time+distance has virtues on its own.
Kurtis M.@AndiPopp When I realized that despite the massive size of the US that I live in, it's stupidly hard to get anywhere by train, I got a little sad. Imagine the insane interconnectedness and access of all the highways crisscrossing the states...but then there was also that much rail. *Mwah* Perfection.
@smarmymarmy @AndiPopp Now imagine how much non renewable resources it would take to make that happen…
PixÉlysé Reclus@AndiPopp the train doesn’t have to be high speed but, yes to that
British Tech Guru@AndiPopp How about just eliminating the need to travel to some dingy little backstreet office instead?
@AndiPopp I agree
Z@AndiPopp while I agree about decreasing car usage and everything related to cars whatsoever, I'm not convinced it's because it would save a planet.
For one, the planet is already fucked either way, but even if it isn't, public transport development can be a strain in the environment, too.
Public transport is vital because of *us*. For healthier cities, for a mobile and fair society, and for a better economy.