What do you think of writing outside your culture? I'm #bipoc but I'm not Chinese. In the draft I just started, one of my POV characters is a Han general.
I feel with Tang novels, issues of multiculturalism in fiction aren't included despite Chang'An's foreign merchant culture. As an #arab one of my pov voices is an Arab merchant with immigration being central.
Still, I don't think cause I'm not Chinese I shouldn't write the story. Thoughts?
@bloodymar @bookstodon I hope I'm not missing the point, but writers write. I'm not a woman, or gay, or Scottish, but half my characters a women, three of them are LGBTQ+, and at least one is Scottish. I research them all. Current language and cultural tropes, ask gay friends about behavioural norms, etc.
So, in the words of one of my Scots characters... dinnae fash yersel'
Write what you feel, but do your research.
@Byrdbrnz @garretguy @bookstodon I always wondered where the idea sprouted out of. Thanks for your insight. I was never deeply involved in the bird app (made an account for one week before deleting it) but this does explain a lot.
Honestly, it makes me sad to hear that those campaigns started because I think a story should acknowledge both the good and bad of any one people group and that the author is not always a reflection of the work.
@bloodymar Own Voices seems to arise out of issues where authors from dominant groups (say, white settlers or Gentiles) writing about marginalized groups (say, Indigenous peoples or Jewish people), especially in hackneyed and stereotyped ways, get recognition and payment out of it while marginalized authors writing about their own experiences get sidelined. It's a structural problem on many levels and I don't pretend to have easy answers, since the roots of them go deep into social inequalities and Own Voices is at least a recognition of the problem.
That said, none of these concerns seem to apply to "lateral" depictions where POC authors write about other POCs without a longstanding history of dominance between the groups, so long as the depictions are respectful and knowledgeable. "Don't write outside your culture" is a terrible distillation of Own Voices anyway, since it disregards real-world power dynamics. It should be more like, "If you are writing about a marginalized culture, especially one whose marginalization you benefit from, consider supporting marginalized authors instead--and if you are convinced only you can write this, do your research and consult extensively with people from the group you are writing about." Doing research is always good advice anyway. @Byrdbrnz @garretguy @bookstodon
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The objectives L.J. lays out for Own Voices are laudible and worthy of support, but as she goes on to say it's a much more nuanced subject than that. Even before those objectives are subject to the distortions of distillation, they narrow the focus of debate so as to exclude many alternative viewpoints (beyond the dominant ones they seek to exclude).
As a writer, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that I'm not allowed to write something because it will be "harder to market" than if it were written by someone else. It's already hard enough to find a market without erecting further barriers.
More importantly, beyond my trivial concerns for my own writing, are the writings of those seeking to discover themselves, or explore themselves through their words. The law of unintended consequences comes into play here, big time. If a young and curious mind is shut out of the game, readers who may have identified with the messages they would have brought will be unable to find someone speaking in their "own voice."
Finally - thanks everyone. This has been a most illuminating and interesting debate!
@garretguy I'm clearing all other mentions since it seems we have drifted to a different topic on the desirability or effects of OV itself, and this is unconscionably long--anyone is free to jump in, obviously.
There are several points you made that I disagree with, or are just unclear in the absence of concrete examples or situations, so I'll point those out:
"As a writer, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that I'm not allowed to write something"
Except this is not what OV is about. At the most basic level, you are obviously allowed to write anything you wish. It's just that some--far from all--agents and publishing houses might not publish it. Framing it as "not being allowed" strikes me as untrue to the point of dishonesty.
"because it will be 'harder to market' than if it were written by someone else."
This is an ongoing situation but not for white or otherwise privileged authors. Publishing is still an overwhelmingly tilted playing field, and, e.g. white authors will still have a far easier time being published than, for instance, Black or Indigenous authors. It comes across to me almost like you're saying that marginalized/minority authors enjoy some kind of privilege over authors from dominant groups. If I have misunderstood, please feel free to clarify.
". . . the writings of those seeking to discover themselves, or explore themselves through their words. . . . readers who may have identified with the messages they would have brought will be unable to find someone speaking in their 'own voice.' "
This is the part I found confusing without a concrete situation attached. If the situation is something like a young non-Indigenous author trying to "discover" themself by writing about what it's like to be an Indigenous Two-Spirit person or about Indigenous beings from legend or something, and then became discouraged and stopped writing altogether as a result of being rejected... I'd say in that case they *should* quit writing, because what they're doing is consuming marginalized cultures they don't belong to, and if that's all they want to do with their writing then it's arguably better for them not to write at all. If what you mean is nothing like this, again, please feel free to clarify.
It should also be noted that writing characters from a culture isn't the same thing as writing about the character's culture. I've seen transgender creators distinguish between "writing about trans characters" on the one hand and "writing about what it's like to be trans" on the other, with the former encouraged for all writers and the latter probably best and authentically done by trans writers.
Again, though, there are no hard-and-fast rules and research & beta-reading go a long way to improving depictions. All I'm saying is that people in dominant groups shouldn't kid ourselves that we thoroughly understand marginalized people's experiences and communities, or that we can tell their stories better than they can. It's not about forbidding anyone to write about certain subjects because such a prohibition has never existed for privileged authors and does not exist currently. It's about respect, humility, and the basics of writing as a craft.
@Byrdbrnz @bloodymar @garretguy @bookstodon
...There's another aspect to this. When reading submission guidelines, the 'own voice' is sometimes stated to be based on a belief that this makes books easier to promote and market.
To some degree that loops back to fear of how people might react.
It goes beyond racism specifically: I've seen publishers ask for submissions with LGBT+ main characters but only want them from LGBT+ writers.
@Wabu @bookstodon Yeah, I really like this opinion and this is what I do in both my writing and reading. If something feels off as a reader, then its a research problem more than anything.
Its also why I have a huge reading list just to write a lot of my projects....
@Byrdbrnz Yeah, I feel this. I think most people who have lived in an urban environment, at least imo, have had exposure to people of other cultures, religions, etc so even if you don't come from that place, its okay to write a POV character who does because those interactions are valid.
Like, as an Arab, I love it when non-Arab writers do their research and include Arab pov voices within their works. Makes the world feel more real.
@bloodymar @bookstodon I'm writing a sci-fi story set in the US but I'm British. It will be a US based story with some UK perspective. I think there's room for all perspectives in writing. I hate being told to stay in my lane.
I also disagree with the whole thing of cultural appropriation. Without being able to enjoy all cultures I would be banned from soul music. A travesty 🙂
As a writer with non-white heritage myself (and being LGBT+), I see no problem writing outside your culture, except select, highly sensitive topics.
If we judge books not by their content and how subjects are tackled, but above all else by the identity of the author... that itself sounds like it could be defined as discrimination.
And if writers only stick to writing their own culture/identity that would sound like it would lead to tokenism over being truly inclusive.
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