Mastodawn

Cans of Soup Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Fascists

benda Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu you answered your own question. the "journalists" that we mostly see aren't committed to accuracy. they're committed to maximizing that corporate ad revenue.

Bellison22 Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu SPOT ON

Jennifed Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu
It's like calling a wrecking ball "a low impact demolition tool."

shyduroff Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu … sigh is not a big enough word …

Steve Slivka Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Consevative is such a 2008 label. Authoritarian is now the appropriate ideological description for this bunch.

I think you’ll find that in American politics, terms like conservative and liberal have drifted so far over the generations as to have largely lost meaning.

Even just talking to self-described conservatives you’ll hear vastly different political ideas.

That’s just how the vernacular changes over time.

Jay Rosen Jan 4, 2023

@volkris When I come upon a phrase that is essentially meaningless, I remove it from my writing. What do you do, sir?

I absolutely avoid those terms myself! :)

I try to use more concrete, more well-defined terms. For example, I might talk about people holding certain policy preferences that are relevant to the discussion, or I might use terms “Democrat” and “Republican” since at least I can refer to official party platforms.

Also, I absolutely hate when reporters frame Supreme Court justices as conservative or liberal especially since their approaches don’t fit nicely into two categories like that, much less with connection to broader senses of those terms.

Yeah, the terms need to be retired in general conversation.

Lumi Kløvstad (They/Them)Jan 4, 2023

@volkris @jayrosen_nyu

A huge problem (that I first really NOTICED in the late aughts but assuredly began sooner than that) is that American Press tends to treat "Conservative" and "Liberal" as literally interchangeable with "Republican" and "Democrat" respectively when they never have been, and now less than ever.
We currently have a Neofascist Authoritarian Party with a small handful of genuine Conservative elements, and a Conservative party with a somewhat larger cohort of Liberal elements.

@LumiKlovstad your comment is really funny to me as it takes some poorly defined terms and throws in a few more just for the fun of it.

It’s simultaneously a bit circular and insubstantial, except for the mud it slings.
@jayrosen_nyu

Lumi Kløvstad (They/Them)Jan 4, 2023

@volkris @jayrosen_nyu

Oh, I didn't realize we were meant to be belittling each other.

Fuck you too.

@LumiKlovstad @jayrosen_nyu

If you think I was belittling you, you misunderstood, and I’m happy to clear that up.

No I’m not belittling you. I’m just pointing out that this use of language is kind of funny, defining conservative in terms of conservative plus terms like fascist which have even less in terms of substantial meaning.

I assume you were expressing exactly what you wanted to. It’s just the art of how you did it that’s interesting.

Scot Close Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu @volkris Thomas Zimmer refers to them as the reactionary right. But he's a historian, not a journalist.

nadin brzezinski Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu @uswarrier some still are…maybe, fingers of one hand. They are…checks notes, radicals.

flutterfli007 Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu MAGArs

Femme Malheureuse Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Ask yourself what they are conserving. They won't answer honestly if asked, because they are conserving power for what is now a minority in this country.

What are better labels for a minority of fascist white nationalists since they won't accept the f-word and the media struggles with accepting "white nationalist" as an accurate label?

Fiz Jan 4, 2023

@femme_mal @jayrosen_nyu The answer is in your comment: they are technically Minoritarians, like South African apartheidists or white Rhodesians. Maybe the better term would be ‘Radical Reactionary Minoritarians’. They wax lyrical about some idealised/mythologised past (the reactionary part) but aim to have minority rule held at any cost, even at the cost of democratic or governance principles (the radical Minoritarian part). But conservative they are not.

Aphrodite (recharging)Jan 4, 2023

the fiction pays their bills.

these are axes journalists and they want to keep their access even if it means everyone suffers.

Ray N. Franklin 🇺🇸Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu To me, it sounds like quibbling to argue over using conservative or Republican. The Republican party has been equating conservatism and chaos for about 50 years. The loudest and most powerful voices in the Republican party support the chaos equation. So I can't fault journalists for using the terminology MAGA prefers. #USPolitics

Jay Rosen Jan 4, 2023

@rnf To me that sounds like defending the use of a term known by the user to be meaningless.

tom4okstate Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu some guest on a segment on Bloomberg radio (didn't catch his name) referred to the holdouts as "right wingers" which was spot on but also pretty wild to hear at the same time.

Jay Rosen Jan 4, 2023

@tom4okstate Probably coumnist Joshua Green.

"Extinct" Onceler Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Focus on the "critical mass" not the "conservative" label. They're unquenched uranium, and every meltdown spreads radioactive waste on everyone around them. They're building a mutant army, one irradiated conservative at a time, since 1996.

Peter Butler Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu It’s been 25+ years since they said they wanted to drown the government in a bathtub and not many have caught on yet.

Victor Caston Jan 4, 2023

The NYT headline online refers instead simply to the "Right Wing."

Finally.

Rich Seymour Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu maybe the staff is relatively the same (boehner to ryan to mccarthy) and that staff feeds the journalists?

CRITTON CHILDERS Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu
They are certainly NOT conservatives. They are rightwing extremists. Just be accurate and call them Republicans. They don't need an adjective. Horseshit doesn't need an adjective; we all know it is stinky.

Steve Foerster 🌐Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Too many mainstream journalists can't readily tell the difference between conservatives, libertarians, and populists. Basically, anything to the right of, say, Pete Buttigieg is philosophical terra incognita.

Scot Close Jan 4, 2023

@stevefoerster @jayrosen_nyu To be fair, the distinction between leftist, liberal, and progressive is not at all obvious (to me, anyway) and I lean in that direction. When labels get turned into pejoratives they tend to become less useful.

Paula Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu concur!

Peter Leon Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu journalists calling these radical agents of chaos “conservative” is beyond inaccurate; it’s plainly false.

Voron Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu they don’t have a commitment to accuracy obviously

VWG Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Thank you for the phrase “sand in the hated federal government’s wheels”. Now I know how to reframe the MAGA narrative by pointing out the action.

A Tattered Scrapbook Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Perhaps because “journalists” serve the interests of the oligarchs who employ them. By now, we should have learned enough to know which “journals” are not worthy of the name.

Jeff Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu communism is not conservative in a free country

Jeff Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Media calls terrorists conservative

PB Livin'Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu The only consistent objective of conservative ideology across the years is to maintain the existing power structures of society, in order to maintain their social status at the top of the hierarchy.

So in that sense I'd say yes, "conservative" is the right word.

The GOP/MAGA seem like agents of chaos, but really it's all flailing attempts to preserve the status quo of white people having dominance in society.

Once you see it that way, it all seems quite consistent.

RinostarGames Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu When hasn't that been the "conservative" agenda? I'm an old man, and it must have been before my time.

ColleenSachs Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu they definitely aren’t conservative. They are radical.

@jayrosen_nyu They are libertarian anarchists with the desire to destroy Government so they can make money from its privatization to benefit themselves, their families and the corporate bosses who fund them. They are anti good governance and against the American people.

@jayrosen_nyu Sadly though they will con those who like the R team name, and the Pro Life description (even though in reality it has been pro death.) And of course it has played to those stuck in the civil war rebellion and the nationalist movements popular pre WWII.

@jayrosen_nyu They may be regressive and authoritarian but are not at all "conservative."
Real conservatives do not want the sell off American land and water rights to the highest bidders instead of preserving them for future generations.
Real conservatives don't vote for bills when their CBO says they will cause more than a 1.5. trillion deficit for 1 percent growth and when the FED says they are inflationary and provide less of a middle class tax cut then either Bush or Obama.

@jayrosen_nyu Real Conservatives had some morals and integrity and would not go near people with zero moral integrity who disrespected and harassed women, mocked disabled people and others, bought guns to use against their Government and had the gall to call themselves "patriotic."

@jayrosen_nyu Real Conservatives were just people like my dad who were honest and hard working, those who knew how to be polite and well spoken and who believed in taking care of communities rather than voting to harm them.

@jayrosen_nyu Real Conservatives had a fighting chance of being elected by people who were educated and informed and didn't rely on low information voters who don't even realize that they live in both a Representative Democracy and a Constitutional Republic. Real Conservatives made it easier for all Americans to vote for their representatives and others instead of harder to vote because they believed in the process enough to develop half way decent party platforms.

@jayrosen_nyu Real Conservatives had a bit of respect for elections and had good sportsmanship enough to accept their losses without lying and accusing others of fraud. Real Conservatives valued public health and didn't threaten the lives of their constituents by going against worldwide experts and studies and arguing against practical things like masking and vaccines.

@jayrosen_nyu And real journalists had integrity and followed the standards of the Society of Professional Journalists rules against writing slanted opinion pieces and calling them "news articles."

WHIT Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu
Is America a ponzi-scheme?

James Slezak Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu EXACTLY. Centrists gonna be centrist. Just don’t let them pretend it’s “objective truth-telling” bc it ain’t

Cleo of Topless Topics Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu
That's why I call them Red. Conservative makes it seem like there is, no matter how misguided, at least some note of rationality within them.

#journalists
#uspolitics
#politics

mechtild jd Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu
Conservatives.

Once upon a time.
(In other words, a fairy tale.)

JenX Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Today’s GOP is the very opposite of “conservative”. It has long been the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party, of which Ginny Thomas is a crusading member.

Andrew Jon Thomson Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu I had some clown on Twitter telling me today that Twitter had purged all conservative accounts so I said that never happened and she responded oh you don’t think they removed all the accounts with Q in their name? it’s the Overton window of conservatism first it describes radicals instead of conservatives, then eventually describes fringe conspiracy maniacs. Eventually in order to be truly conservative a person will have to wear underwear on their head and walk backwards everywhere

Ms AB ☕Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu Laziness.

Semiosmith Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu surely many journalists are part of the game?

Philip Laureano Jan 4, 2023

@jayrosen_nyu The opposite of conservative isn't liberal, it's radical.

There's two spectrums to consider:

- Conservative versus Radical (e.g those who want to maintain status quo versus enact radical change)

- Left vs Right wings of the US political system.

Right now, the Republicans are in disarray because the MAGA party (that is composed of radical right wing Republicans) doesn't agree with the majority of Republicans that fall into the conservative arm of the Republican party.

I find it amusing that the same party that wanted to burn down the Capitol Building is now causing trouble for the remainder of Republicans that were ready to let it happen.

So let's all sit back and let Karma take its course.