AJ GracesonJan 2, 2023
Mother Bones

Okay, I am sorry to quote myself but this a topic I've picked over and embodied for years, both personally and professionally.

When I shot off a bird thread about it in the grocery store parking lot in October of 2021, it resonated with a lot of people so I'm going to reproduce my words here, where there may be a different or more nuanced discussion about it.

Here goes: getting older does not make people conservative, that's a myth made by conservatives. (1/5)

Nov 22, 2022 at 6:05pmWeb
Show threadMother BonesNov 22, 2022

(begin quote)

"Let's get something straight. Growing old doesn't make people #conservative. In fact the more marginalized identity statuses a person has, the LESS conservative they grow over time.
The reason we equate "old" with "conservative" is that #marginalization kills people off younger.

Some of the most radical people you know are old.

It's just a lot of others died before they could get there, so there's a diminishing proportion. (2/5)

Show threadMother BonesNov 22, 2022

There is a TON of research on this, I'm not just spitballing.

I've been in this field for decades. And I've watched the statistics I studied play out IRL over and over and over for myself and everyone I've known. (Including hundreds of clients.)

This is one of the reasons I'm so annoyed with the intergenerational divisiveness being pushed down all our throats. It's bullsht.

We have allies and enemies across every generation.

(3/5)

Show threadMother BonesNov 22, 2022

This is also related to the myth that "racism will die out" or "homophobia will die out" as older people die.

No, bigotry and fascistic attitudes *don't* just die out, they must be actively fought and defeated on an ongoing basis.

Because sometimes we make the mistake of thinking "Oh, the youth must not be bigoted like their forebears" but guess what.

If that were true we wouldn't have had the tiki torches or the terf explosion.

Allies and enemies in every generation.

(4/5)

Show threadMother BonesNov 22, 2022

(end quote of myself!)

Just as #privilege accrues the older you get, ALSO #marginalization and deprivation accrue. If you start out on the downside, you can end up much much worse off as you age.

Thank you to @mattalhonte for the following related link:

[Title: "Seniors Are More #Conservative Because the #Poor Don’t Survive to Become #Seniors, By Ed Kilgore"]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/05/poor-people-often-dont-survive-to-become-seniors-who-vote.html
(5/5)

Show threademNov 23, 2022

@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

I have not gotten even a little more conservative as I've aged. And many of us ARE alive. We spent our lives working on equality. Why would we abandon those values now?

BUT as we age and get more and more marginalized. You are right about that. And that makes everything more difficult. Especially if you don't have a community any longer. I lost my people over the years. It's odd to the the repository of memory for all your friends, with them gone. But sometimes it's you.

Show threadDrooling Fan GirlJan 2, 2023
@tamsen @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte same here. In many ways I’ve become less conservative. (Added after I thought a bit. I think it’s important that we define what we mean by conservative).
Show threadIrinaJun 27, 2023
@drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I'm more left-wing than I used to be but that's only in a relative sense: I don't think I've moved to the left, but I'm sure the world around me has moved to the right. (edited to fix typo)
Show threadF.U. 🅭…Jun 27, 2023
@irina @drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_
What's your time scale?
As a Gen Xer, a lot of the political issues in dispute today weren't on our radar 20 years ago.
Exactly on 2003-06-27, I heard about Lawrence vs Texas (banning "morality" laws).
Justice Scalia wrote:
"If moral disapprobation of homosexual conduct is 'no legitimate state interest' for purposes of proscribing that conduct ... what justification could there possibly be for denying the benefits of marriage to homosexual couples?"
1/
Show threadIrinaJun 27, 2023

@frankie @drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_ I first became politically aware in my mid-teens, late 1970s. (And I'm in Europe; different issues affect us here)

(note: I'm not trying to elicit discussion, let alone debate, and I'll probably mute this conversation soonish)

Show threadF.U. 🅭…Jun 27, 2023
@irina @drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_
At the time, most people thought Scalia was being bombastic; it turns out he was exactly correct (but on the wrong side of the fight).
I supported the Lawrence decision; what people do in private is their own business. But changing marriage? That's crazy talk.
10 years later, marriage equality is the big social issue. I supported "civil union" as a compromise, until someone said "separate but equal is never equal". That convinced me to move left.
2/
Show threadF.U. 🅭…Jun 27, 2023
@irina @drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_
And even then, trans wasn't on the radar.
10 years from now, what currently marginalized group will be striving for equal rights?
To wrap it up: yes, economics has marched relentlessly to the right for our entire lifetimes.
But on some social issues the world has moved left, and I get why those whose personal views haven't kept up are super upset.
I disagree with them, but I get it.
3/3
Show threadWndlBJun 28, 2023
@frankie @irina @drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_ That decision is in severe jeopardy. #justsaying
Show threadEstarriol, Terrorist DragonAug 28, 2024

@irina @drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

pretty much my position, somehow thinking everyone should have the basics of food, healthcare, housing, education has become an extreme position.

Show threadAaronJun 27, 2023

@drooling_fan_girl @tamsen @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I have definitely moved massively to the left. And it's specifically because I'm heavily marginalized as an autistic person. Being marginalized myself made me think beyond all the closed-minded judgmental attitudes I was taught growing up, to realize that bigotry is wrong, no matter who it's directed against, and the only judgment we should ever pass on others is for harm they do to those around them.

Sadly, I've lost the ability to hold a meaningful conversation with much of my family as a result. It's hard to stay civil when they are going on about gay people, trans people, Black people, Mexican people, disabled people, liberal people... God, the list is long. Stopping early. :(

Show threadMarc TriusJun 27, 2023

@tamsen
As I've gotten older my political views haven't changed much, but I've definitely gotten more 1) burnt out, 2) disillusioned with the Left's ability to mass organize its way out of a wet paper towel, and 3) pissed off at radical culture's conformism, insularity, ageism, antisemitism, bravado, moralism, vanguardism, etc, to the point that I now avoid radical spaces. Instead I focus on survival and community for my family. I guess that counts as more conservative.

@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

Show threadChu 朱Aug 1, 2023

@alter_kaker @tamsen @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

Thank you for articulating this.

Yesterday I got criticized by someone on the "left" for my criticism of... get this gas powered lawn mowers because I wasn't being "considerate" enough of those who can't use push mowers or maybe can't afford electric.

The left can't organize itself out of a wet paper towel mostly because we can't even get along long enough to define "left" or "progressive". What do we stand for? Because right now... seems like status quo.

Show threadDesert Dweller 🌵Dec 9, 2022
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte 🌊 I started adulthood in a (very) far-right bastion of conservatism. By 30, I was working on my exit strategy. That was decades ago, and I promise you that the older I get the more liberal I become. 🌊
Show threadAmanda CarsonJan 2, 2023
@JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte Yeah same. By 30 I was starting to figure out how I was going to exit conservatism and to be honest the more I encounter things like inaccessibility of software/websites and the further we get from ADA passage and this stuff never seems to get better the more "radical" I become on this stuff, and don't even get me started on healthcare stuff.
Show threadCJJun 27, 2023
@arush @JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I considered myself a "conservative" for almost 40 years, but "conservative" doesn't mean today what it meant even 10 years ago. It seems to me that now "conservative" just means supporting former president Trump or fighting the culture war of the day. Fiscal responsibility, supporting business, law and order, government overreach, support of the and intelligence agencies, and more are all just sacrificed at the feet of former president Trump or the altar of the culture wars.
Show threadT.WllmsJan 15, 2023

@_L1vY_ @JulieNye @mattalhonte

I find that most people who I see that are conservative in nature and pretty out there with it stopped maturing at about 15 or so… they hold those same attitudes… and many even say… I’ve been like this since high school.. just my observation… and not worthy a ton …

Show threadRasta™ OLDJan 16, 2023
@tdwllms1 @_L1vY_ @JulieNye @mattalhonte IMO, I find the further you go in Rural areas, the more conservative the vote. Often that mindset is, we've always been, so there's no questioning it. Often without resources to make educated decisions. IE: I am unable to live in my retirement home due to lack of services. No cellular, most have no internet, lost TV in 2010 (Digital) never had Cable. don't even get RADIO signals in some cases.
The politicians pop by to hug babies, get votes & leave
Show threadJenna WrightJan 16, 2023
@Rasta @tdwllms1 @_L1vY_ @JulieNye @mattalhonte Side note on those radio signals: Anne Nelson published her research on the CNP and detailed their massive network of US AM radio that radicalized people living in news deserts into the far right. @onthemedia recently had her on Ep 2 of their 5 part series ‘The Divided Dail’. It’s a must listen, imo. I’m sure similar has played out in Canada & other countries. https://masto.ai/@JennaWright/109373573751557294
Jenna Wright (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Side but related note: Anne Nelson, who is featured in the film discussing her research on the CNP, published in her book ‘Shadow Network: Media, Money and the Secret Hub of the Radical Right’, will be next week’s guest on @onthemedia They're doing a 5 part series on the American right’s domination of the airwaves. The first episode was fantastic. I learned things. Katie Thornton is an engaging host. Looking forward to the episode with Anne. Here’s the link to Episode 1: https://t.co/UHWmMxIIrc

Mastodon
Show threadRasta™ OLDJan 16, 2023
@JennaWright I can download it, I'll have a listen in the morning, getting later here and my focus is not good.
here's my dilemma. I bought a house, where I wanted to retire, moved closer to the city for schooling for the kids, work and services.
When I left they had a daily bus, they had three Over The Air (OTA) TV stations. They had daily rural paper delivery. Every 8-10 miles was a payphone on a convenience store, with a gas pump. We have none of those things today, no cellular, no signals
Show threadRasta™ OLDJan 16, 2023
@JennaWright Add No #Healthcare and suddenly you can't live there retired. We might not be able to drive ourselves soon to the hospital, or find the Emerg Dept closed all this month. Accidents still happen.
Show threadRasta™ OLDJan 16, 2023
@JennaWright Hit by Hurricane Fiona this summer, my house took damage, we made it but no one checked on us. No 911, no internet (power out 13 days) no well water (no pumps) no cellular, and no radio because the local repeater 20 miles away, was in the blackout area. I found out from USA AM radio that we were two hurricanes behind.
In 2023, not one mention of securing modern communication to all of our province? Emergency alerts go out, and never reach venerable rural people. Gentrification
Show threadJenna WrightJan 16, 2023
@Rasta That’s sad. Inexcusable, too.
Show threadRasta™ OLDJan 16, 2023
@JennaWright It's like a master plan to support just a few, until the others move there. or die.
Show threadPamela EhnJun 27, 2023
@Rasta @JennaWright and people get mad at me that I refuse to move to a rural area. Like WHY would I do that? Yes, I’m facing homelessness right now where I’m at, but at least there ARE services I can use to deal with that. But move to a rural area? There is a REASON why housing is cheap: no jobs, no medical care, no transportation, no broadband so remote working is impossible, etc. There’s literally nothing there. There’s no longer community or amenities because rural America is withering away.
Show threadJenna WrightJan 16, 2023
@tdwllms1 @_L1vY_ @JulieNye @mattalhonte I’ve been saying the same for 6 years. It’s like something stunted their emotional maturation. Perhaps a combo of trauma and behavioral influences.
Show threadDesert Dweller 🌵Jan 16, 2023
@JennaWright @tdwllms1 @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte Y'all, my own .02 on this aspect? I don't find this part of the mindset much (any?) different from its mirror image in the #Christofacism I fled in the 90s. It's way easier to have a list of "rules" to substitute for judgment than to do your own thinking. Most immature kids would rather react than think, yes? It's not the only factor, but it's a big one. If that's overly cynical, I might be sorry. Or not. 🤷‍♀️ 🤨
Show threadJenna WrightJan 16, 2023
@JulieNye @tdwllms1 @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I agree and I don’t think we’re overly cynical.
Show threadT.WllmsJan 16, 2023

@JennaWright @JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

I don't think any of us are overly cynical... or even just being too critical, because we are awake and aware ... many of those conservatives have openly stated ... they've believed this since high school... like Rand Paul and his love of fiction and Ayn Rand...

Show threadJenna WrightJan 16, 2023
@tdwllms1 @JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte Good example, there. Idk his family history but Ayn Rand was certainly a heavy influence in his life. Another example would be Elon & his grandfather’s influence.
Show threadbsoistJan 16, 2023
@tdwllms1 @JennaWright @JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte Well, I’m a little cynical 😎
Show threadT.WllmsJan 16, 2023
@bsoist actually I'm a lot cynical... just wasn't at that particular moment. 😎
@JennaWright @JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte
Show threadMarthaJan 18, 2023
@JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte
I love your typo: exist strategy - exactly, not just get away but how will I live, what kind of life do I want to have, strategy
Show threadAaronJun 27, 2023
@JulieNye @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte Same!
Show threadMeadhbh DhommnailDec 9, 2022

@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

I always was told, even when I was a pre-teen budding environmentalist, that I'd grow more conservative the older I got, but the opposite is actually what has occurred. And as marginalized identities go I don't have all that many. Woman, Queer, Neurodivergent - and that's about it. Getting older only stripped me of most of my filters, made me say out loud the things I'd been screaming in my head for decades.

Show threadGrassroots JoeJan 2, 2023
@Meadhbh @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte
Wow, you just bowled me over as a side benefit of this great conversation.
I know my kids, especially my oldest, are neurodivergent and boy could we have used this terminology when they were growing up.
Come to think of it, while I was almost always able to find a way to cope and I'm not as neurodivergent as my son, we are SO alike, I guess that makes me neurodivergent too; quite the revelation. Thank you!
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
Neurodivergent: What It Is, Symptoms & Types

Neurodivergent means having a brain that forms or works differently. This nonmedical term also means people who are neurodivergent have different strengths and challenges.

Cleveland Clinic
Show threadzendao42Jan 3, 2023
@Meadhbh @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte
Started out young & apathetic but age has fueled the fire of rage- watching fascism consume so-called conservatives keeps me on the left til death
Show threadRiggioDec 9, 2022
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte If anything, I’ve gotten more progressive and critical of our current system as I’ve gotten older. I’ve moved from a small, mostly white place to a populous multicultural part of Canada, gone through periods of underemployment and financial hardship through the 2010s, and seen serious abuses of the vulnerable as our leaders have grown openly contemptuous of the poor, disabled, and elderly in the pandemic. And I’m not even 40 yet.
Show threadLevi BarnesDec 20, 2022
@mattalhonte @_L1vY_ I see your point. I just don’t think the math works out here. Among 30 year olds, 35% are conservative and 45% are liberal. By 65 it’s 45% each. To make that happen by killing off liberals, You’d have to kill 10% of us between 35 and 60. And that’s if exclusively liberals are dying.
Show threadPamela EhnJun 27, 2023
@fizixgeek @mattalhonte @_L1vY_ marginalized populations tend to be liberal and a lot don’t make it to 65. Average lifespan for autistics is 59.
Show threadMollyNYCDec 20, 2022
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte
Respectfully disagree.
There’s a GIANT difference between being *actually* conservative—valuing stability, and the things that go with it [1] (which does happen as you age)…
…and the claptrap that the Right has *marketed* for decades as “conservative” to its dumbbells.
___
[1] This doesn’t pit anyone with sense against marginalized people. Obviously, improving their stability and security improves your own.
Show threadPamela EhnJun 27, 2023
@MollyNYC @_L1vY_ @mattalhonte omg, yes! My politics are liberal but I’m temperamentally more conservative. I feel like I’m alternately feeding the younger generation soup before they go to the battle lines and yelling at them to get off my (nonexistent) lawn.
Show threadAdam JezardJan 2, 2023

@_L1vY_

The older you get, the more left-wing you're likely to become these days.

https://www.ft.com/content/c361e372-769e-45cd-a063-f5c0a7767cf4

Millennials are shattering the oldest rule in politics

Western conservatives are at risk from generations of voters who are no longer moving to the right as they age

Financial Times
Show threadMark CrockerJan 2, 2023

@adamjezard @_L1vY_ I was wondering if someone would post that Financial Times article link about how millennials are not following the trend of getting more conservative as they age, but, unfortunately, the article is #paywalled so here's a post that includes some of the graphs https://mastodon.social/@Nash076/109609389141167379

Cc: @Nash076

Show threadGrassroots JoeJan 2, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte
This so rings true across so much of my life experience crossing paths with marginalized, often poor struggling people & families who not only are/were liberal, also too damn busy keeping their heads above water to engage in political life, and privileged people who far too often were quite invested in protecting their privilege.
The latter group includes 2nd/3rd generation white ethnic immigrants having "worked hard to earn their success".
Show threaddrogusJan 2, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte sorry if this is a dumb question, until today I thought this thing is true (ie. people get more conservative), but there is this thing doing rounds on the bird site: https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1608732051481444356?s=20&t=awo2OGi8Nvd5OtZfkwEk1w that appears to show a difference between older millenials vs older boomers/genx/silent. Do you have any insight on what explains those graphs?
Jim Pickard on Twitter

“millennials aren’t getting more right-wing as they age: fascinating statistics via ⁦@jburnmurdoch⁩ https://t.co/f3rZOLYTz0”

Twitter
Show threadNarrativeEscapesJan 2, 2023

@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte yeah, I question the Conservative as you get older thing as well. There are too many variables going on for it be always true.

I do think as you age you get to chose to be wiser and more empathetic or the metaphorical equivalent the old man on his porch with a shotgun.

It is life experience and how you process and, of course, some people experience these things much faster or earlier than others.

Some have whole dead areas in their experience and exist in a weird stasis.

Show threadploinkJan 2, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte great thread - while I totally buy this - it’s funny because most of the conservatives I know are poor not the other way around. Specifically I’m from an area of the Midwest that almost guarantees you are conservative and at least culturally Christian. I’m guessing that group of people largely defies this trend.
Show threadDame Scott GJan 2, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I have noticed this dynamic in the #LGBTQ community, which can serve as a microcosm of the macrocosm.
Show threadThewhitemouseJan 2, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I wonder what you think about this chap's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ftaEkkjiE
Let's talk about getting more conservative as you get older....

YouTube
Show threadBrittle Anxious Nonlinear IncoJan 5, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte pushing fifty and rapidly approaching a suicide bomber state
Show threadOld Hippie ⓋJan 5, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I am 72 and as radical left as I was in my youth. The big difference is only that I live in a rural area now and don't have the opportunity near here to engage in protests and the like. I believe there are many more like me out there.
Show threaddigiomJan 5, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte It's horrifyingly true. Education has helped me escape my caste of farmers and uneducated workers but I have watched my grand parents' and now my parents' health deterioriate before, sometimes way before retirement age. Meanwhile, the parents of my middle-class peers experience a second spring as jolly pensioners, taking their grand children on vacation while it's repeated hospital visits for us. It makes me both jealous and furious.
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Jan 6, 2023

@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I feel like part of this, and many other misconceptions about age are due to the extremely high degree of age segregation in society.

Seriously, it really grinds my gears how widespread not only age segregation is, but how often people defend it, or even advocate for _more_ age segregation.

I can't be the only one who feels we could achieve a lot more if generations could talk to eachother, and both learn from and teach eachother, free of barriers and stigma.

Show threadWm.sonJan 13, 2023

@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte

I firmly believe, too, they are more easily scared/set to worry. They DO watch fox news

Show threadPatty KimuraJan 13, 2023
@_L1vY_ @mattalhonte I suspect some elderly who enjoyed the economic and social status of whiteness when younger who then age into poverty blame non-whites as the source of their economic marginalization. They are only "conservative" because Conservative leaders made the choice to welcome racist anger as their partisan gateway drug. It has, sadly, worked well for them.