ange
mtswIt's pretty remarkable how much Elon's Twitter takeover is a textbook fascist takeover: leftists immediately purged, censorship regime imposed behind the scenes, secret police rooting out enemies, right wing terrorism supported by the state, etc and how uncannily similar the mainstream liberal response of pretending nothing is wrong is, even with *very low* costs of walking out the door and refusing to collaborate.
Not really my problem I guess but def feels like one of those "if you don't know how'd you'd react when the fascist take over, now you know" situation
Probably goes without saying but the often clownish administrative incompetence (along with that fact reassuring the liberals that the regime will therefore collapse on its own without requiring anything of them) is a pretty obvious parallel to actual fascist regimes as well
I don't want to overstate the stakes here. Ultimately, as the site gets ruined you can just... stop using it. But you actually have to, you know, do that. If you stay on, your information environment will slowly be poisoned and therefore your mind will be poisoned.
Free Speech Abolitionist@mtsw I agree with everything you’re saying, which raises the question of why you’re still on Twitter
Bea Furniss@mtsw If you don’t move, your immobility can be taken by the regime as tacit approval for what’s going on. Moreover, in an environment where engagement stats drive advertising spend on the platform…tweeting bluster about Elon on his platform is putting money in his pocket. It would appear that laziness is a more powerful motivator than social conscience for some on Twitter.
TC Won't Give In To Lies@mtsw
100℅ agree!
What's even worse is the attention paid to journalists trying to get *back on* Twitter.
Like abused spouses in a shelter who want to get back to their partner, I just don't understand how they go back.
Babs 💙🐝⌛️🦋🔻@mtsw 'If you stay on, your information environment will slowly be poisoned and therefore your mind will be poisoned.'
Agree. I'm staying on, but I'm mindful there's no real news there anymore. News is here, I think.
I thought my leftie presence there might make a difference, but I think we're all shadow-banned, so that's a no. :(
I'm watching it implode then.
haq@BabsSheKing @mtsw If you're only watching the implosion you could just scroll the bestfodyingtwit account once a day without interacting.
@BabsSheKing @mtsw Lol, I'm glad you managed to complete the cryptic crossword clue I accidentally gave you.
Lu Wilson
Andy Pearlman@mtsw I would just note there's a script which allows one to force the use of latest, zero algo, clears out all the trending topics, no ads, etc...so at least the poisoning doesn't happen.
scott f@apearlma That definitely doesn't stop the poisoning. It can't bring back the accounts he's censored for starters.
@mtsw I don't think this is quite right. Just like Fox News, I can opt not to watch, but I still live in a country where this well-funded media organ is poisoning the information environment for lots of other people, who vote.
Jennifer Gallays
Pensive™️@mtsw
I operate under the “keep your enemies closer” ideal. And no matter what crap they post , I can consider the source and discard anything I can’t prove.
I operate under the “keep your enemies closer” ideal. And no matter what crap they post , I can consider the source and discard anything I can’t prove.
Flav 🇨🇭🇨🇦🇷🇴@mtsw You don't like censorship? Make your own Twitter! When a word like fascist is being overused it diminishes its meaning.
aptlyundecided@flavc @mtsw Calling a thing fascist is no different than describing its shape. The word isn’t meant to be some reserved title for the particularly horrible things in the world. It only describes:
- nationalism
- dictatorship
- forceful removal of opposition
- social “ranking” or segmentation based on level of dedication.
I think talking about it more, would make people understand it better. Because Twitter atm checks every box above.
@aptlyndecided @mtsw Except for nationalism (which is not a bad thing to love your country), you sound like you're trying to describe the left. Remember when the leftists running Twitter before Musk censored and deplatformed their political opposition? They cheered when Jeff Bezos pulled the plug on Parler. Also "the summer of love" when American leftists torched and tore down entire cities for months. Leftists are everything they claim to stand against.
@aptlyndecided @mtsw Take whatever you want. Are you're surprised to see the Fediverse (not Mastodon network) is not just another safe space for leftists to complain about "fascists" and "Nazis"? You're right that now I can finally vent about leftists without being censored and banned, but I never used Twitter in the first place. Twitter was just an echo chamber where the leftists could tell each other what they like to hear without anybody interrupting them.
@aptlyndecided I live in Canada and for many months I was segregated and treated worse than an animal for daring to refuse a useless experimental injection forced on us by the government. Guess who the leftists sided with? The government and big pharmaceutical companies. If you know anything about technology you should know vaccine passports are the worst form of tracking and surveillance.
[REDACTED]™, Instance Migrator@mtsw I am still shocked to see how many people who moved here are still cross-posting. They can't give it up and try to hide it under some guise of "fighting back" which is just their grasping at straws to disillusion themselves that they are helping the Nazi Bar stay in business
solient@mtsw Twitter feels like it’s on a slow boil, slowly getting worse but not bad enough to cause any more mass migrations.
Demi@mtsw this is something which I have to keep reminding myself
that our minds are genuinely pretty vulnerable, and not immune to the atmosphere and conversations of the social spaces we reside in. So when our social spaces have been poisoned, we should genuinely consider seeking out other kinder communities
Doctor Memory@mtsw one of the things that always struck me reading Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich was that the Nazi high command didn’t even bother hiding their opinion that Mussolini was a buffoon and that the Fascist Italian army was beyond useless…
…and that in no way stopped Italy from buying the full ticket. Nor did this seem to prompt any significant introspection about their own government.
Gregory Hays@mtsw A constant drumbeat in Victor Klemperer's diary of the early Nazi years is running into people whose cousin works in the Foreign Ministry and assures them the regime can't possibly last more than another three weeks, maybe a month at the outside.
@aristofontes @mtsw I assume they always thought the regime would be deposed …by someone else? It’s that classic tale of Somebody, Everybody, Anybody and Nobody.
@BeaFurniss They thought it was a conventional government that was subject to the same laws of political gravity as the governments that had preceded it. This turned out not to be the case.
@aristofontes I guess that we can fall into the trap of judging the German people through the lens of hindsight, and expecting them to be more vigilant and aware of their plight than one would be, in the moment.
@BeaFurniss Well, "the German people" was not a monolith. Plenty of Germans knew exactly who the Nazis were; others chose not to see it.
gzuckier@BeaFurniss @aristofontes
Just finished Kingdom Come by J. G. Ballard, 2006, where he depicts a nativist fascist violent groundswell in the hinterlands (of England), underestimated and disregarded by the powers that be, the authorities, the Londoners, etc.
A mediocre afternoon TV host of no particular principles is the perfect leader for such a movement, as it turns out. .
Just finished Kingdom Come by J. G. Ballard, 2006, where he depicts a nativist fascist violent groundswell in the hinterlands (of England), underestimated and disregarded by the powers that be, the authorities, the Londoners, etc.
A mediocre afternoon TV host of no particular principles is the perfect leader for such a movement, as it turns out. .
@gzuckier There are times when I think he's the greatest writer of the 20th century, and others when I think he's the greatest writer of the 22nd.
@gzuckier @aristofontes The English flirted with fascism in the 30s, and some would say have succumbed to its temptation in the last few years. I read the premise to the book. I’m not sure Surrey counts as a hinterland.
anlomedad@BeaFurniss @aristofontes @mtsw
But that's basically human. You can't change it – and don't waste time trying!
The few people who aren't like that need to act on their own, preferably w/ joined forces and joined strategy. For the good of all.
Or nothing will change.
Maybe 10% will counter-act.
The remaining 80% of the population won't act at all but continue to swallow whatever is served.
Here's #VictorKlemperer 's diary 1933-1941 as PDF https://archive.org/details/KlempererVictorIWillBearWitness19421945ADiaryOfTheNaziYears/Klemperer,%20Victor%20-%20I%20Will%20Bear%20Witness%20%20A%20Diary%20of%20the%20Nazi%20Years,%201933-1941/
Also the one 1942-1945.
@anlomedad_real @aristofontes @mtsw ooh, thank you for the link. I shall find somewhere to download it on to, so I can read it. My mindset doesn’t gel well with that of the ‘do nothing’ crowd, so I’m always likely to become impatient with their inertia. But you are right: if we widen the lens and look at how we as a species deal with other problems, such as global warming…gun control…poverty…we can see inertia.
YsegrimImportant thread
world.wide.woelfl@aristofontes @mtsw This is what makes the diaries so valuable. Viktor Klemperer's experiences are described with only a slight adjustment based on later findings. A true testimony of the times. So much seems incomprehensible from our addiction today. How could this happen and be allowed to happen? So it was frightening for me while reading to realise that the developments are also repeating themselves today.
Scott@aristofontes @mtsw There was a similar drumbeat during the Trump years playing out on the news networks.
ML2@mtsw To be fair, the difference between Nazi Germany and Twitter is that Musk is actually losing support, wealth, and advertisers in real time. Each new major mistake causes people to flee here, and given the rate of technical issues has increased I don't see that stopping. Plus the FTC and EU regulators are not happy, and Elon seems to be blowing them off.
That being said, I don't see Twitter surviving Elon, the months that follow are going to be weird, and any attempt to limit the damage to other things besides Twitter (and to get people over here) is a good thing.
(In case anyone asks, I have been on Mastodon since 2019 and completely left Twitter over a month ago after spending my last week telling people about here.)
That being said, I don't see Twitter surviving Elon, the months that follow are going to be weird, and any attempt to limit the damage to other things besides Twitter (and to get people over here) is a good thing.
(In case anyone asks, I have been on Mastodon since 2019 and completely left Twitter over a month ago after spending my last week telling people about here.)
Juan Salvo@mtsw haven’t we been living that hypothetical for like 6 years now?
Loukas (They/Them) 🏳️⚧️@mtsw definitely
Icevice@mtsw I don't know why people think they will be one of the few to resist fascist if the time comes. If you don't have a good evidence that you are different, then you are probably not
🦋 Ben West 🐒🌻@mtsw this is so true and so troubling.
Curious how this maps to a strategic response also rooted in historical examples. Walking out the door is part of it for sure. How do we wake up those centrists more quickly with the least possible carnage?
Trying to think of the best historic lessons. Democratic removal of Trump is one example perhaps? Anti-colonial liberation movements in Haiti or India or elsewhere may provide useful insights? Workers co-ops in Spanish Revolution or Argentina?
Mauigirl52 - Mimi Michalski@Mauigirl52 @mtsw yeah im torn. I have been on there so long it feels wrong to simply walk away without fighting back. Also I use it a fair amount for work and have for a long time.
Everyones situation is their own to consider, for me I have shifted more than half of my time and attention into this space. I wish i had spent more time here when I first set up an account in 2019.
Building the alternatives together is the key thing. Im glad we are talking about whats possible. Cheers.
JonKramer, CIS-HET@Mauigirl52 @BenWest @mtsw your posts drive up usage numbers, which raise advertising revenue. It may be insignificant, but all individual snowflakes contribute to a blizzard. All are equally responsible.
@JonKramer @BenWest @mtsw I suppose so. I'm sure over time I'll probably be spending most of my time here or on Post.
@JonKramer @Mauigirl52 @mtsw thats assuming the whole game isnt rigged by bots and apps and other manipulations to begin with but its a point well taken.
Lets remember that for many of us #Twitter is also an addiction. Luckily the #fedi is not only a good substitute for our addiction but it's healthier and more fulfilling.
Dr. J Bernadette Moore@BenWest @JonKramer @Mauigirl52 @mtsw possibly naive question (but here goes) I had read to lock down, not to delete account for fear of one's handle being impersonated/taken over?
While I have wanted to depart 'tout suite' for some months, I still have overlapping professional & personal networks there. Yet I am driven mad by Musk's Trump-like domination of the news cycle & his taunting 'more users than ever' claims... its a difficult space to navigate, even for early tech adopters
Thoughts?
@TheMooreLab @JonKramer @Mauigirl52 @mtsw
Hard to say for sure what will work best given his propensity for making up policies in the moment. 🤦🏼
Makes sense to not let go of the username over there. I think he said they would take away usernames from inactive accounts at one point but nothing that has been any more clear than that in terms of specifics or timelines.
Best of luck navigating this maddening situation. Glad to be finding all kinds of good people here. Cheers.
@TheMooreLab @BenWest @Mauigirl52 @mtsw I agree with that thought, and it is what I did myself. But, it's probably paranoid. Who cares if some douche nozzel pretends to be us, or anyone? I won't open a profile on Parlor, Truth Social, Nextdoor, or the Stormfront pages just to avoid an imposter doing it. So I check every few days... But I probably shouldn't even do that.
@TheMooreLab @BenWest @Mauigirl52 @mtsw I'm talking with my wife about this now. And part of the conversation is about ICQ. Do you remember that social media site?? She had a really low number... she thinks it was 4 digits. Which was REALLY low, and sought after.
These days, no one remembers or cares.
One day no matter what our feelings about Twitter are now, it will be vague memories.
@JonKramer @BenWest @Mauigirl52 @mtsw agreed. Compared to the 5 & 6 digit follower folks, I was, by intent (for a decade avoided hashtags), v small fry on the birdshite. But did like my wee community.
Perhaps my (and others) issue is completely severing ties? Struggled similarly w FB. Family on 3 continents. So even though can't bear/don't engage w the 'meta' feed of adverts no friends, still can't quite delete.... but middle age making me more bolshy... maybe 2023 my year for deleting!?
@TheMooreLab @BenWest @Mauigirl52 @mtsw , I get it, I still have a myspace account. I don't check it often though.