Mastodawn

FauxpasG Dec 27, 2022

I just hope that people learn one thing from the Twitter debacle (especially those who consider themselves dependent on it): allowing yourself to become dependent on a tool that is centralised, corporate, for-profit, and proprietary is a perfect way to set yourselves up for a similar fall in future. Look for the same pattern in your other tech dependencies. I suspect most of us will feel some discomfort. That's good. It's also appropriate. That's what leads to positive change.

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

The willingness most people seem to have to put their trust into (and even idolise/fawn over) corporations shows a lack of insight into the way proprietary technology, corporations, and society work. It's a diabolical mix that's going to be our downfall. For more see https://davelane.nz/megacorps & https://davelane.nz/proprietary

It's why I say we're in a digital Dark Age - most of society, despite being increasingly dependent upon it, lacks this crucial tech literacy. https://davelane.nz/darkage

The Toxicity of Public Multinational Corporations

If you live in the connected western world, their cloud of brand identities is in your face all the time. They are (most of) the airwaves. They are the chain stores.

Dave Lane

sj_zero Dec 27, 2022

Not just for communication platforms, either. For many many things, if you don't control it, it isn't yours. You might have found the perfect little program for part of your workflow but oops it's an online app from Google and it's now in the Google graveyard. You might have found the perfect free to use 3d tool, but oops they got bought out and now it's $1000 a year to keep using it. You might have found the perfect iot device for your home but oops, it relies on a third party server and the company went out of business so now you have to throw all the equipment you bought away.

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@sj_zero absolutely. I wrote this in an effort to help people understand: https://davelane.nz/mshostage

New Zealand: dependence on the Microsoft Corporation

Anyone in business should be familiar with an old truth: if you build your business so that it depends on a single supplier's product, that you can't get anywhere else, you don't actually have a busin

Dave Lane

ogbog Dec 27, 2022

@sj_zero @[email protected] so you're saying I can get rid of my original kinect, even though it was once long ago the height of homebrew mocap?

Robert M. Kelly Dec 27, 2022

@sj_zero @lightweight True. But this is the nature of Capitalist Tech. The current horserace to see who will harness ChatGPT (and ChatGPT-like) tech and make gobs of money from deploying it is instructive. Most all of these firms will fall by the wayside. Two or three will capitalize on the potentialities, and one will get folded into Google. It seems that consumers have no choice but to become the beneficiaries as well as the victims.

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight First i deleted my account on FB - 6 or 7 yrs ago and NEVER regretted it for one minute.

Then left Whatsapp for *Signal* - about 3 yrs ago, brilliant move and NEVER regretted it for one minute.

Then I stopped using Amazon and buy online from local Aus-based suppliers (especially books)- 3yrs ago and have NEVER regretted it.

Then i left Spotify (after its zero response to R-W Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro podcasts) and signed up to *Tidal* - 1 yr ago with zero regrets especially as Tidal sound quality is AMAZING.

Then left Twitter for *Mastodon* - about 2 mths ago, brilliant move and NEVER regretted it.

I think theres a pattern here...
I honestly wouldn't care if Zuckerberg Besos and Musk lost every cent they have and ended up sleeping under a tree.
Smaller businesses need air and support to thrive. #music #booklovers #socialmedia #shoppingonline #FaceButt #meta #amazonboycott #elonmusk

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 good on you :) - I've followed a similar trajectory: https://davelane.nz/my-open-history Set up this Mastodon instance in 2017... haven't regretted any of it.

My Open History

This is a story about the sort of "open" that matters to me, and how I got to this point.

Dave Lane

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight @aral I pretty much did the same but add to that google. Moved email client, search engine, browser and maps. zero regrets and don’t miss any of them.

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight @aral Yes! Same
I use Ecosia. Hate google. Hate the way a lot of platforms assume you want to login with Google or FB.

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight @aral That does stick in my throat too. I use Neeva for search and browser on iOS.

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight @aral
But does it plant trees???
😉

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 No, no it doesn’t 😁

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @sinky @aral I've been using Ecosia, too, for a few months (after I heard that DuckDuckGo is using MS Bing - yeah, it still exists)... and then I heard that Ecosia also gets most of its results from Bing... and @jackyan pointed out some interesting indications that MS has let Bing's index collapse... which doesn't bode well for Google alternatives.

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight i guess though you can only do so much with what you have. Google have such a monopoly on things it’s difficult for any company to start a rival search engine from the ground up. Have you read around/tried neeva?

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight No. Ill check it out.
Thanks for the tip!

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@sinky I think I have heard of them - they're creating their own search index-as-a-service? Will check to confirm I'm thinking of the right one. And yes, we can all only do what we can (but we have to be true to ourselves! It's about intent: https://davelane.nz/intent )

NetHui Insight: Open is about Intent

At the recent NetHui conference in Auckland last week (8-10 July 2015), in a session titled "Why Not Open?" that I helped run with Rachel Prosser (DIA) and Nigel Robertson (Waikato University), I made

Dave Lane

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight @sinky It is indeed. I always worry about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, but then I do my best to avoid the really big bad guys bc i hate seeing them win by monopoly.

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight I do have to admit though that i still use Youtube! That’s one thing i cannot shake. I can do without a lot of things but watching music on there certainly improves my mental health 😊

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @Godfrey642 I use it quite a bit, too. When I post links to videos, though, I use an Invidious instance (usually invisious.snopyta.org which I've found reliable) to shield people watching via Mastodon from being dumped into a Google surveillance zone. Don't want to condemn them simply for following something I've linked to. And ut's easy to use Youtube if you prefer (just switch the domain name - the rest is the same).

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight You're human.
We all make mistakes! 😉
I really believe we have to do what we can. Billions of ppl worldwide all consciously trying to do something adds up to a lot.

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight We sure do, I certainly do anyway 😁. I do try as much as I can, even if it's just little steps. I can certainly improve more but it's a balance between adapting yet still enjoying/getting the results.

mathew Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight There’s kagi.com as well, trying to build a sustainable search engine business without surveillance capitalism.

Jay 🆘Dec 27, 2022

@mathew @sinky @lightweight I’ve been using #Kagi for nearly a year and I love it. Even better than DDG, which was OK but now has so much advertising.

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@jsit Neeva has no advertising either.

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral Thanks, Dave. It looks dire at Microsoft and the Bing proxies (Duck Duck Go, Ecosia, Qwant, Yahoo, etc.). This was one test I ran: https://jackyan.com/blog/2022/08/mojeek-shows-more-in-its-search-results-than-google/

Also, c. 40 per cent of Bing results are repeated from page to page. From what I can tell, the index is smaller than what Alltheweb and Inktomi had 20 years ago.

The only Google alternative for me is @Mojeek. Its rankings could improve but that can happen with a larger user base. Strictly no tracking.

Mojeek shows more in its search results than Google « Jack Yan: the Persuader Blog

What search engines claim to be their index size and what they let you access are two different things.

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@jackyan thanks for that reference, Jack! @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight No worries, feel free to have a browse through the blog as I got a bit OCD about this for a few months! I notice the Microsoft forums have plenty of webmasters who cannot get their pages or sites indexed.
Most of the pages Bing has for @lucire are pre-2010, so for us it’s Microsoft’s Wayback Machine. (There are even index pages we have not touched since 2005 that come up in the top 10!) @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@jackyan @lightweight @lucire @Godfrey642 @aral @Mojeek Jack, thoughts on Neeva?

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@sinky Hi Simon, isn’t Neeva another Bing skin? If you try some searches, you’ll find the top results are virtually identical, When I do this one for one of our work sites, it suffers from the same problem as Bing: everything (home page excepting) is from before 2010. That’s always a giveaway for me that it’s Bing’s collapsing index behind it.

https://neeva.com/search?q=site%3Alucire.com&c=All&src=typedquery

@lightweight @lucire @Godfrey642 @aral @Mojeek

Simon 🌻Dec 28, 2022

@jackyan Thanks Jack. I wasn’t sure. I know the big draw for me was no ads and the privacy.

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022

@sinky Itʼs really appealing, I agree. I think Mojeek is pretty good on ads, i.e. not overloaded with them, and definitely the privacy aspect. Its only con, to me, is page ranking, but thatʼs down to a small user base. On that score, Neeva (and Bing) will do better.

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022

@sinky You might want to keep an eye on Yep (yep.com). Still a new player and so far no ads. Iʼm not sure what their privacy policy is.

Simon 🌻Dec 28, 2022

@jackyan thanks, i will do that. i’ve also been reading around Mojeek as i hadn’t heard of it until your post.

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022

@sinky I hope you find it useful—my original motivation was to find something that would do a decent internal site search and Mojeek has more than met my expectations. The great thing is you can message them and they will reply!

Simon 🌻Dec 28, 2022

@jackyan Thanks. That’s great to hear. I hadn’t realised they were a UK firm.

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022

@sinky Yes, very much so, with UK-developed software and paying taxes in the UK. I’ve had some good exchanges with two of the crew there. CEO @colinhayhurst knows his stuff, too. Here’s a piece he wrote recently: https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/business/how-the-uk-search-engine-mojeek-offers-you-an-alternative-9282222/

How the UK search engine Mojeek offers you an alternative

CEO Colin Hayhurst explains what it has to offer, compared to you know who.

Cambridge Independent

Simon 🌻Dec 28, 2022

@jackyan @colinhayhurst That’s great. I’ll have a read. Thank you.

Colin Hayhurst ✅Dec 31, 2022

@sinky happy to take any questions you may have. Thanks for the mentions and explanations @jackyan

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@jackyan ouch. I guess that's what 'winning' looks like when you're Microsoft (so, by definition, you never lose). @lucire @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight Yep. And it’s getting worse. This was August:

https://jackyan.com/blog/2022/08/what-search-engines-show-in-their-top-10-isnt-always-relevant/

(Two pages from the 2020s, the rest were old.)

This was October:

https://jackyan.com/blog/2022/10/forget-the-2010s-and-2020s-bings-results-are-firmly-in-the-2000s-now/

(All story results are before 2010.)

@Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek

What search engines show in their top 10 isn’t always relevant « Jack Yan: the Persuader Blog

You would naturally expect that a web spider following links would not rank anything that hasn’t been linked to for over a decade very highly. You would be surprised at what...

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight @aral
Ecosia has financial transparent too

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight @aral yes, i have read around that. Very good.

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight @aral I do get a bit fed up with friends/family who sigh wearily and say "oh its too much effort to delete FB WhatsApp Spotify Amazon Twitter Google bc of all my stuff friends accounts are on there.." First world problems..

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight @aral 😁. It’s the total shock on peoples faces when you say you don’t have whatsapp or facebook….”What!, you don’t….”.

I got a new job a while ago and there’s a group chat on whatsapp and the number of times i was asked to explain why i don’t use it (in a nice way). It’s almost expected. Same as google.
i’m all for personal choice and it’s up to them if the want their privacy and data sold.

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@sinky here's how I explain the tyranny & imposition of proprietary communication tools to people: https://davelane.nz/notslack @Godfrey642 @aral

Why Slack is better, and why open communities shouldn't use it

There's a newish (last few years) "team communication" platform called "Slack" that most tech (and many non-tech) people use to communicate in asynchronous text, images, voice, and video in business t

Dave Lane

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight @sinky @aral
Thanks for the link 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @lightweight @aral
Exactly. Its like going out every day and leaving your front door wide open with a sign saying "Help yourselves!"

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight Oh and also deleted my bank account with CommBankAus - corrupt ba*tards. Opened an account with Bank Australia and was very happy for first 5 yrs but recently has been a bit Big Brother-ish about withdrawals and daily spending. I think they may be struggling. Lots of branches shutting too.

Anyone recommend a sound bank? Or is that a contradiction in terms???
🤔

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 yeah, can't say I've come across anything I'd recommend. For me, the best of the bad (and they're pretty bad) is Kiwibank...

Achim Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight Well done! Now try #Linux for Windows and you will never regret it as well....

Erwin Rossen 🔸Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight Never heard of Tidal to replace Spotify. Until now, time to check it out!

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@erwinrossen @lightweight Its great sound quality.
Enjoy 🙂

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@erwinrossen @Godfrey642 @lightweight I’d also check out Qobuz too. Out of Tidal and Qobuz, I preferred Qobuz, personal choice. Been using it a number of years now.

🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022

@sinky @erwinrossen @Godfrey642 unfortunately, the problem is 'streaming services'. That model is precarious if you invest lots of time & energy in them (e.g. making playlists, etc.). You're just borrowing at their pleasure.

Simon 🌻Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight Yes, correct. I’m personally happy though to do this. It just suites the way i listen to music. Been doing it for pretty much since streaming was available to subscription. I’ve found so many artists than I would have done if just bought my own music.

graybeard28 Dec 27, 2022

@Godfrey642 @lightweight
I've also taken most of these actions -- and never regretted any of them. Freedom! Thanks for your post.

Godfrey642 Dec 27, 2022

@graybeard28 @lightweight Thanks! You are v welcome. I also changed my bank.
Ive used Ecosia for 4yrs rather than google but have learnt on this thread from some responders that Ecosia uses Bing 😕 . You worry about jumping out of the front pan into the fire.
One guy recommended Mojeek an independent search engine with no tracking.

@Godfrey642 @lightweight
Bezos is a mixed bag for me. He saved and breathed new air into the Washington Post, and then took his hands off in the right way. If that was all he did, he'd be heroic.

That said, I don't understand why the feds aren't suing to break up Amazon.

Godfrey642 Dec 31, 2022

@jesseliberty @lightweight Its morally wrong to cherrypick to suit an agenda, and he can't do one good thing and think that makes all the rubbish decisions ok.