Dave Lane  🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022
I just hope that people learn one thing from the Twitter debacle (especially those who consider themselves dependent on it): allowing yourself to become dependent on a tool that is centralised, corporate, for-profit, and proprietary is a perfect way to set yourselves up for a similar fall in future. Look for the same pattern in your other tech dependencies. I suspect most of us will feel some discomfort. That's good. It's also appropriate. That's what leads to positive change.
Show threadGodfrey642Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight First i deleted my account on FB - 6 or 7 yrs ago and NEVER regretted it for one minute.

Then left Whatsapp for *Signal* - about 3 yrs ago, brilliant move and NEVER regretted it for one minute.

Then I stopped using Amazon and buy online from local Aus-based suppliers (especially books)- 3yrs ago and have NEVER regretted it.

Then i left Spotify (after its zero response to R-W Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro podcasts) and signed up to *Tidal* - 1 yr ago with zero regrets especially as Tidal sound quality is AMAZING.

Then left Twitter for *Mastodon* - about 2 mths ago, brilliant move and NEVER regretted it.

I think theres a pattern here...
I honestly wouldn't care if Zuckerberg Besos and Musk lost every cent they have and ended up sleeping under a tree.
Smaller businesses need air and support to thrive. #music #booklovers #socialmedia #shoppingonline #FaceButt #meta #amazonboycott #elonmusk

Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 27, 2022
@Godfrey642 @lightweight @aral I pretty much did the same but add to that google. Moved email client, search engine, browser and maps. zero regrets and don’t miss any of them.
Show threadGodfrey642Dec 27, 2022
@sinky @lightweight @aral Yes! Same
I use Ecosia. Hate google. Hate the way a lot of platforms assume you want to login with Google or FB.
Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 27, 2022
@Godfrey642 @lightweight @aral That does stick in my throat too. I use Neeva for search and browser on iOS.
Show threadGodfrey642Dec 27, 2022
@sinky @lightweight @aral
But does it plant trees???
😉
Show threadDave Lane  🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022
@Godfrey642 @sinky @aral I've been using Ecosia, too, for a few months (after I heard that DuckDuckGo is using MS Bing - yeah, it still exists)... and then I heard that Ecosia also gets most of its results from Bing... and @jackyan pointed out some interesting indications that MS has let Bing's index collapse... which doesn't bode well for Google alternatives.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral Thanks, Dave. It looks dire at Microsoft and the Bing proxies (Duck Duck Go, Ecosia, Qwant, Yahoo, etc.). This was one test I ran: https://jackyan.com/blog/2022/08/mojeek-shows-more-in-its-search-results-than-google/

Also, c. 40 per cent of Bing results are repeated from page to page. From what I can tell, the index is smaller than what Alltheweb and Inktomi had 20 years ago.

The only Google alternative for me is @Mojeek. Its rankings could improve but that can happen with a larger user base. Strictly no tracking.

Mojeek shows more in its search results than Google « Jack Yan: the Persuader Blog

What search engines claim to be their index size and what they let you access are two different things.

Show threadDave Lane  🇳🇿
@jackyan thanks for that reference, Jack! @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek
Dec 27, 2022 at 7:06pmWeb
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022
@lightweight No worries, feel free to have a browse through the blog as I got a bit OCD about this for a few months! I notice the Microsoft forums have plenty of webmasters who cannot get their pages or sites indexed.
Most of the pages Bing has for @lucire are pre-2010, so for us it’s Microsoft’s Wayback Machine. (There are even index pages we have not touched since 2005 that come up in the top 10!) @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek
Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 27, 2022
@jackyan @lightweight @lucire @Godfrey642 @aral @Mojeek Jack, thoughts on Neeva?
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@sinky Hi Simon, isn’t Neeva another Bing skin? If you try some searches, you’ll find the top results are virtually identical, When I do this one for one of our work sites, it suffers from the same problem as Bing: everything (home page excepting) is from before 2010. That’s always a giveaway for me that it’s Bing’s collapsing index behind it.

https://neeva.com/search?q=site%3Alucire.com&c=All&src=typedquery

@lightweight @lucire @Godfrey642 @aral @Mojeek

Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 28, 2022
@jackyan Thanks Jack. I wasn’t sure. I know the big draw for me was no ads and the privacy.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022
@sinky Itʼs really appealing, I agree. I think Mojeek is pretty good on ads, i.e. not overloaded with them, and definitely the privacy aspect. Its only con, to me, is page ranking, but thatʼs down to a small user base. On that score, Neeva (and Bing) will do better.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022
@sinky You might want to keep an eye on Yep (yep.com). Still a new player and so far no ads. Iʼm not sure what their privacy policy is.
Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 28, 2022
@jackyan thanks, i will do that. i’ve also been reading around Mojeek as i hadn’t heard of it until your post.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022
@sinky I hope you find it useful—my original motivation was to find something that would do a decent internal site search and Mojeek has more than met my expectations. The great thing is you can message them and they will reply!
Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 28, 2022
@jackyan Thanks. That’s great to hear. I hadn’t realised they were a UK firm.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 28, 2022
@sinky Yes, very much so, with UK-developed software and paying taxes in the UK. I’ve had some good exchanges with two of the crew there. CEO @colinhayhurst knows his stuff, too. Here’s a piece he wrote recently: https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/business/how-the-uk-search-engine-mojeek-offers-you-an-alternative-9282222/
How the UK search engine Mojeek offers you an alternative

CEO Colin Hayhurst explains what it has to offer, compared to you know who.

Cambridge Independent
Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 28, 2022
@jackyan @colinhayhurst That’s great. I’ll have a read. Thank you.
Show threadColin Hayhurst ✅Dec 31, 2022
@sinky happy to take any questions you may have. Thanks for the mentions and explanations @jackyan
Show threadSimon 🌻Dec 31, 2022
@colinhayhurst Thanks Colin.
Show threadPaul StocktonDec 31, 2022
@colinhayhurst @sinky @jackyan Going to give Mojeek a try myself, glad I’ve heard of it now thank you
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Jan 1, 2023
@pauls @colinhayhurst @sinky So happy to have made a few introductions! Happy 2023!
Show threadPaul StocktonJan 1, 2023
@jackyan @colinhayhurst @sinky Have a great 2023 everyone!
Show threadSimon 🌻Jan 1, 2023
@jackyan @pauls @colinhayhurst Yes, Happy New Year everyone.
Show threadDave Lane  🇳🇿Dec 27, 2022
@jackyan ouch. I guess that's what 'winning' looks like when you're Microsoft (so, by definition, you never lose). @lucire @Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 27, 2022

@lightweight Yep. And it’s getting worse. This was August:

https://jackyan.com/blog/2022/08/what-search-engines-show-in-their-top-10-isnt-always-relevant/

(Two pages from the 2020s, the rest were old.)

This was October:

https://jackyan.com/blog/2022/10/forget-the-2010s-and-2020s-bings-results-are-firmly-in-the-2000s-now/

(All story results are before 2010.)

@Godfrey642 @sinky @aral @Mojeek

What search engines show in their top 10 isn’t always relevant « Jack Yan: the Persuader Blog

You would naturally expect that a web spider following links would not rank anything that hasn’t been linked to for over a decade very highly. You would be surprised at what...