Thread on a wild yet not uncommon exchange today. I share as an anecdote of how embedded racism is in our society & how close it's tied to economics
A white guy named "Bill" age ~60 says to, "Where are you *from* from?"
Me: [sigh] I'm from Pakistan. [I go back to my phone]
Bill: Pakistan? What do you do for a living?
Me: Civil rights lawyer
Bill: I'm a lawyer too! But I stay away from race & women stuff. Last thing I need is to be called racist or accused of sexual harassment
Me: Huh?
/1
Bill: So Pakistani? I'm a landlord too. Can I tell you a story about what my Indian tenant did to me?
Me: I don't need to kno—
Bill: So I raise her rent & she won't renew. So I tell her I have to bring in people to see the apt. But every time I'd bring a prospective tenant, she'd invite her Black friends to the apt.
Me: Uhh ok?
Bill: Don't you get it? No one wants to rent a place w/Black people around.
Me: Wait, I'm sorry, what?
Bill: Can you believe it? She did that on purpose!
Me:😳
/2
Me: Yeah, Bill. That's pretty racist. In fact, that's the definition of racism.
Bill: Oh no I'm not racist. The prospective tenants might be. But—
Me: You can probably stop talking. I'm good.
Bill: I need to pay my bills. Who cares if they're racist?
[He Kept Talking]
Bill: I can't be racist. I've dated Black women.
Me: Bill you should really stop. This dialogue doesn't need to go on.
Bill: But how can I convince you I'm not racist?
Me: You do not have to worry about me.
IN CLOSING
/3
4 lessons I want to point out:
First, he didn't see himself as racist b/c he "dated Black women"
•LESSON 1: Proximity to race isn't exemption from being racist
Second, he didn't mind racist tenants b/c it paid his bills
•LESSON 2: Financial power structures built on white supremacy perpetuate white supremacy
Third, he felt like he was the victim
•LESSON 3: Racists in power are used to privilege their entire lives, so equality feels like oppression
/4
Fourth, he desperately needed my validation & was upset I wouldn't offer it
•LESSON 4: It's not enough to be not racist, we must be anti-racist (Angela Davis)
Bill finally left feeling he'd been wronged & upset I wouldn't empathize.
This was an anecdote—but imagine this shameless racism played out across 50 states, hundreds of years, millions of housing units? That's systemic.
The fight for justice & equal access is ongoing. Stay active, stay engaged, and always speak truth & justice.
5/5
@QasimRashid How painful. How ignorant. How there are way too many of these types of guys. How exhausting. How it is up to those of us who are 'different' to be the tolerant ones; that we are supposed to be innately sympathetic to the racist's soul.
Sorry you had to experience such boldfaced ignorance; he just could not stop begging for affirmation that he is not a racist - when he knows in his heart it truly is.
What an unhappy mind.
I am curious if you have ever been asked this question while you are in Brooklyn.
@Mari311 @QasimRashid ... and so even the more innocent queries just add to the sense of "otherness." I think this most commonly happens when someone is in the U.S. but has a non-U.S. accent, but can also happen within the U.S. That can taken on a negative tinge too, depending on how people with the accent are viewed by the local people.
So in general I think it's better to avoid asking the question altogether, at least until you know the person well enough that it will be received OK.
I think the assessed sincerity of the asker would play a part as would the askee's experience with the questioning.
In the Og post, it is obvious there wasn't a curiosity about the other person. There were no open ended questions, just statements about what he thinks Qasim wants to hear & what the speaker wants to hear in return. Interesting topic. I certainly will think twice b4 asking strangers where they are from. 😎
@Mari311 @QasimRashid
When a stranger is asking, no serious assessing of sincerity is possible, nor should anyone being asked that sort of question be forced into evaluating the questioner on the each occasion it occurs, itself a burden.
You seem more interested in defending yourself than contemplating that you may have inadvertently been one person in a long line of micro aggressions for many of the people you have asked. That being said, I am glad to hear that you will rethink the practice.
@paulstone @QasimRashid @cepaea @Mari311
"...but I don’t think I would call it a micro-aggression."
ffs 😒 it fuckin' is and it's a racist one.
@albinanigans @QasimRashid @cepaea @Mari311
It could be in some cases, I'll grant you that.
@albinanigans @paulstone @QasimRashid @cepaea @Mari311
I was born and raised in Toronto. I've been asked that all my life, by white people including those who themselves emigrated to Canada.
I heard of a white South African guy living in London UK, and he said he's never been asked that. If he ever volunteered that he was from South Africa, no one ever did the follow up "no, like, originally, your people?", who were Dutch colonialists.
@Mari311 @albinanigans @QasimRashid @cepaea @duaneaubin
Yeah, that shouldn’t happen, and I believe you when you say that it does. I live in California. We have a lot of people who speak with an accent. In some cases I have asked where they come from. That’s what I’m talking about. A person might be Vietnamese, Cambodian, Chinese, Korean, Malaysian, Filipino, Thai, etc.
@albinanigans @Mari311 @duaneaubin @QasimRashid @cepaea
If someone speaks with a local accent, I assume they were born here, regardless of their racial or ethnic makeup. California has more Hispanic people than non-Hispanic whites, and a huge Asian population as well.
I’m sorry that people made racist assumptions which made you feel less than a first class citizen in your own country.
“When a stranger is asking, no serious assessing of sincerity is possible”
I wouldn’t make a blanket statement like this. I would rather say that asking someone what country they are originally from can make some people uncomfortable.
@JohannasGarden @Mari311 @QasimRashid @cepaea
I agree. And in many cases you're better off not asking someone where they're from, because you don't know what it may bring up. But, I wouldn't tell someone never to ask. It can be part of a nice conversation where you get to know someone. But, I would suggest it not be the first thing you ask someone, nor the second.
@JohannasGarden @Mari311 @QasimRashid @cepaea
It probably keeps coming up because people are trying to understand where we should draw the line. I recognize that can be annoying, but it's how our brains work.
To be clear, I agree that the behavior which Qasim wrote about was awful.
I have seen some posts which start now with some version of "White people please don't respond", and I find those really offensive, although it does tell me where I'm not wanted.
@paulstone @JohannasGarden @Mari311 @QasimRashid I hear you, but I’d also like to say to my fellow white people: if someone tells you that something is painful, then stop doing it rather than trying to explore the exceptions & circumstances & good intentions. No one has to ask a stranger about where they are from or where they are from from. Life will go on, and there are plenty of other ways of connecting with people if that is genuinely what you are looking to do.
Err on the side of caution.
@JohannasGarden @paulstone @QasimRashid @cepaea
I think you grasped what I was trying to say. Didn't you ever talk to someone in a plane or bus. Only add in a different language or skin color & all of a sudden it's all murky. I believe if you are honest about your intent & voluntarily offer similar info about yourself the conversation can be pleasant. I would never speak to anyone the way this guy spoke to Qasim. I was offended by his racism
@Mari311 @cepaea @QasimRashid
I think where it goes off the rails is when "Brooklyn" is not a sufficient answer.
"No, where are you FROM from? Originally?"
That's the "I don't see you as an American, you must be a foreigner".
I struggle with the FROM from thing. I mean, all 4 of my GPs (& some of their oldest kids) were born in Sweden. My parents were born in MN, USA, as was I. But it never bothers me to be asked where I'm FROM from, except if I were ever asked by a Native American, I'd feel a bit ashamed my grandparents didn't stay TF where they were.
Always been interested in where others' ancestral journey routed through, & I appreciate their pride in same.
But I'm a dick if I ask.
I've learned not to ask. It's just that it can be difficult to grok that some rules are just because they're rules, and others are more intuitive. "How would you feel if YOU were asked?" I'd be fine. Wouldn't bother me. Would never cross my mind that it could bother me.
Which, of course, is white privilege. And frustrating to have JUST started to grasp how also Dunning-Krueger these things are.
Destined to fail. Trying anyway.
@cepaea @kelvin0mql @QasimRashid
Not necessarily, in my opinion. Some people could be uncomfortable, and others might be fine with it. Depends a lot on how you ask. If you feel comfortable asking, and you are observant to their social cues, then I think it’s OK.
I avoid the whole issue by having no friends. So far, that's working out great.
Qasim Rashid, Esq.
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