Taylor LorenzCan anyone who understands how this platform works better than me explain why we canβt have crucial harassment tools like restricting replies to mutuals only, or mass blocking? Also any reason we canβt get link previews on here? Just curious if these are things that can ever be implemented ππ»
Noble (moved to wolfdo.gg)@taylorlorenz i thought we did have link previews? lemme try: https://glacier.dog
Mike Hicks@frostbite @taylorlorenz Yeah, they exist, though they seem less consistent, and may take a while to appear due to the task getting queued on the server side. Some sites may block the Mastodon crawler, since the many instances can hammer ones that don't have caching or CDNs
Andrew McFarlane@frostbite @taylorlorenz must be unique to your client. Iβm using the Mastodon app on iPhone & donβt see a preview. Seems to indicate itβs eminently possible tho!
PointlessSpike
Andrew Werth
KΞVΞΉΟ BLΞ»KΞM4N@andrewwerth @frostbite @taylorlorenz That will also change depending on the client you are using in your browser.
I'm using this and I get previews.
yuletide@andrewwerth @frostbite @taylorlorenz same for me using iOS official app. I like metatext also but it doesnβt show favorite counts and seems to be dormant
Darth Tiktaalik@Darth_Tiktaalik @andrewwerth @frostbite @taylorlorenz relevant! looks like it just got released https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/109543381373981313
edit: looks like they dont have post previews yet either...π
Josh Soref@andrewwerth @frostbite @taylorlorenz we're on the same instance, and I get previews in Chrome for Android on my Pixel 3A.
Have you turned off images in settings?
@andrewwerth @frostbite @taylorlorenz specifically, what do you have here: https://mastodon.social/settings/preferences/appearance
ChrisContiPhoto@frostbite @taylorlorenz Previews apparently only work sometimes (maybe on the same server?).
Gregg Alley
Crystale@taylorlorenz @frostbite what app are you using?
Dan Ilic βοΈ@taylorlorenz @frostbite strange... Preview works in Mastadon Android app
Sampson B. Honker@frostbite @taylorlorenz depends on the server, but it can take some amount of time to process/generate the preview.
John Lusk@frostbite
In FediLab only if you "click" on the containing toot, I think.
Ursula π΄@taylorlorenz they are completely possible
juno@ursulawren @taylorlorenz ex-twitter software engineer here, and i've dug pretty deep into how mastodon works - can confirm, both of these are completely possible in mastodon on a technical level.
Bart Decrem@junosz Heya! I'm working w a few friends on a project to make Mastodon a bit easier to onboard. Would love to chat, see if you want to do some work w us. Interested? I'm bdecrem on g mail (since dm here is pretty broken)
warrior rabbit 
@taylorlorenz @junosz @ursulawren
Hmm. Well... I guess I'm used to the ease of clicking a GIF button on my iPhone (in the Twitter app) and then finding what I want pretty easily. I don't seem to have that here. I'm currently using MetaText. (I've tried Tooot and Mast and a few others. I find pluses and minuses in each.)
Hmm. Well... I guess I'm used to the ease of clicking a GIF button on my iPhone (in the Twitter app) and then finding what I want pretty easily. I don't seem to have that here. I'm currently using MetaText. (I've tried Tooot and Mast and a few others. I find pluses and minuses in each.)
T. Emil Rivera-Thorsen@warriorrabbit @taylorlorenz @junosz @ursulawren The problem isn't the tech, but that most of the online GIF providers that the birdsite and the blue f rely on have quite problematic privacy policies that are incompatible with Mastodons privacy and anti harassment focus.
@ursulawren @taylorlorenz @thriveth @junosz
Hmm. But if I have to do searches or save things on my phone... it's not appealing. I'm lazy.
Hmm. But if I have to do searches or save things on my phone... it's not appealing. I'm lazy.
@warriorrabbit @ursulawren @taylorlorenz @junosz You search for a gif on Google, you post a link to the file in tie post or reply. It's less convenient but not by a whole lot...?
Comfortably Numb@taylorlorenz Not sure about other stuff, but link preview usually a bit delayed - for me it shows in a few seconds or on page refresh.
TJ@taylorlorenz defer to others on the link previews (which should work on some interfaces) but if you're getting abuse from a certain instance, your instance admins should be able to ban that instance entirely.
Marko VodanoviΔ@TJ @taylorlorenz
New here as well, so there's questions... Ok, mods can block entire instances, great. But can't abusers simply spin up their own private instances and repeatedly abuse people? Or is it not that simple to do?
New here as well, so there's questions... Ok, mods can block entire instances, great. But can't abusers simply spin up their own private instances and repeatedly abuse people? Or is it not that simple to do?
@vodamark @taylorlorenz Seems like it'd be a lot of work for a single toot, but may be feasible. @mattsheffield any idea?
Tracy HallIn concept, yes, but it isn't *that* trivial (nor free) ... some earlier admins have told stories of similar action, but I doubt it would be effective at the moment.
Ms. Penny Oaken@vodamark @TJ @taylorlorenz a few years back there was a group that was spinning up distinct *domain names* and pointing them at the same server in an effort to evade a block; I never caught the back half of that incident so I donβt know how exactly theyβd mitigate it, but it would likely generally parallel user ban evasion cold wars.
@PennyOaken @vodamark @taylorlorenz I think the bottom line here is that Mastodon, unlike Twitter, is a community-based enterprise, and unlike some Twitter Safety deus ex machina, we rely on each other, and our instances, to manage spam and trolls - perhaps some holes in the short term, but in the long term far more effective. Yes?
@TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz Yes. Twitterβs βOnly People Mentioned Can Replyβ/βOnly Followers Can Replyβ was:
1: developed to mitigate noise/spam/dog piling/harassment/protests without dedicating policy (& human labour for actioning) to AUP violations;
2: needed a central technological access control system to enforce it.
If it were written into the specification β¦ it might not be honored by some instances, but that could be a defederation condition.
@TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz ActivityPub (the protocol the Fediverse / mastodon is built on) has βOnly Followers Can Seeβ for individual items, which - combined with the ability to restrict your followers to only the accounts you approve - serves a similar anti-noise, anti-harassment purpose.
One-(or Few)-to-Many, Replies Restricted (βbroadcastβ style), though β¦
One-(or Few)-to-Many, Replies Restricted (βbroadcastβ style), though β¦
Schuyler D@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
I love the idea of defederation conditions that are "fast"-- ie if you're not respecting X then you're clearly not respecting the basic tenets of the platform.
It makes test suites more important for alt implementations but it also solves renegade bots and more
huxley(fur) / Laelia π Furcationland DeadDog@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz "mute this thread" could be done on the receiving side right now
@huxley @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz my instance and/or client definitely has βMute this conversationβ.
One of the use cases for restricting replies is to counter & prevent misinformation from piggybacking on a conversation or announcement with a wide distribution / reach, so in such a case βMute this β¦β would be insufficient.
pont@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
Couldn't the instance you are on filter replies that are not from people you mentioned, or followed ?
At least then the OP doesn't have to filter through the junk themselves.
robryk@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
> 2: needed a central technological access control system to enforce it.
Not really. We already can kinda have it in some way:
a) the canonical view of the thread is served by your instance, so it can refuse to publish some replies there (using whatever internal logic it wishes to use),
b) when a reply is sent to the OP's followers, if the OP's followers list is not public, it's the OP's instance that does that forwarding (and can choose to refuse to do so based on any internal logic it uses).
If OP's instance is Mastodon/Pleroma/Akkoma and blocks (suspends) the domain of the replier, both of these things will happen. I don't know which kinds of other blocks (incl. in other instance software) will currently cause which subset of them to happen, but would hope that OP blocking the replier would also cause both to happen.
This obviously doesn't prevent the replier from sending that message to e.g. people explicitly mentioned. Alas, they could send such a message as a straight-up new message instead of a reply, and no reply-blocking would help with that (point (a) above already deals with visibility of that as a reply when viewing the OP's post).
lord pthenq1@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
Mastodon is good like it is. If you don't like to be questioned, answered, etc, please close your accounts or block everybody.
Mastodon has the tools so you don't have to depend if a dictator to tell what to say, what to think, etc.
There were versions of mastodon that did that. They were defederated.
If mastodon does not provide the features you like, it is better to migrate to another networks.
@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
Mastodon has far more moderators than the birdsite.
3 o 4 moderators average by instance, times 3000. Besides everyone have powerful moderation tools.
Everybody can block an user or entire instances and they are just gone.
@pthenq1 @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz There are a few use cases where it makes sense for someone to make publicly readable posts which have comments turned off. Example: the leader of a political party or country makes an announcement. Terrorists use the replies to deliver a bomb threat. The bomb threat causes a panic, leading to humans being injured or dying in a crush. Countering & preventing terrorist amplification is legitimate.
@pthenq1 @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
Everything open will be exploited for fun, politics, and profit;
In an active crisis there is no real-time knowledge, only real-time information.
Mastodon should be about knowledge. As more people join, its exploitability for (mis)information scales exponentially, and infrastructure which addresses that should be planned for.
Thanks for coming to my ModX Talk
@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
Perhaps. There're tools to avoid that already in place. We were being attacked for all kind of trolls. They could not yet solve mastodon.
We will see. Even in your scenario it can be easily muted.
@PennyOaken @TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz
For example, nobody can search in mastodon. And tags can be muted.
It is open, but no uncontrolled.
Compuguy π±@TJ @taylorlorenz Yes they can do that. Though they need to be comfortable with Linux, Docker, and possibly working with a cloud hosting service like Digital Ocean, Linode, Vultr, AWS, Azure, etc....
@TJ @taylorlorenz Looks like someone has created a nearly one click deploy for Mastodon: https://mstdnandchill.fun/@sparkle/109543067894079228
ππππ ππππππ (@[email protected])
@[email protected] there's also fediverse.express that will auto install it along with a few other platforms. I tried it out on a few different hosts and it works perfectly.
@compuguy @vodamark @taylorlorenz Still seems like a lot of work for your average troll. And, deployed at scale, I'd imagine it'd be spotted relatively quickly.
@TJ @vodamark @taylorlorenz Thatβs true. Iβm pretty sure Iβve black-holed at least one personal instanceβ¦
Mike MasinI have a new, shiny instance. Fourth Estate, aka @jeff hosts it for a very reasonable monthly fee. I'm on the smallest plan, 1-5 users. So I didn't have to tinker with the internals. Moving my account was easy, too. DM if you want deets.
@vodamark Eventually if this attack becomes a problem, I expect instances will stop automatically accepting content from instances they've never seen before. It'll make it harder for nascent instances to join the fediverse, but it's likely it'll happen.
One cooldown approach to new instances could be functionally a "shadow-ban" for a cooldown window w/ only some users (who probably opt into a firehose) seeing content for the window. Giving time to ππ before the instance is shown to normal users
Michael Slezak@taylorlorenz I think link previews work with some apps and not others?
Max Woolf@taylorlorenz Link previews prob can be added (they are there just not as expansive as Cards on Twitter), but anything involving users is made complicated by federation.
eigenman 
@taylorlorenz Anything can be implemented if there are devs who want to donate their time. That's always the issue. It's open source.
@eigenman @taylorlorenz clearly you're not aware of the Mastodon workflow and you talk without knowing
@darckcrystale @taylorlorenz Ok I'll bite, What don't I know?