Mastrn
Ken WhiteElon being Elon is familiar -- so familiar that it's no longer even particularly grotesque. But Elon fans tying themselves in knots trying to explain how WELL ACTUALLY all of this is PERFECTLY CONSISTENT with free speech absolutism he promised . . . . well, that's showing some new lows in groveling and abasement.
June Casagrande@Popehat Remember when he tanked Tesla stock by saying it was bankrupt as an April Fools' Day joke?
Thomas H Jones II@Popehat What I don't get is *why* people try to defend the indefensible? I mean, what's the gain of doing so? If there's none, why do it. At least with the GQP office-holders and hangers-on, the potential gain is getting voter-support to further political aspirations or office-holders' desire to hire or do business with you. But the kind of people who are kissing Elon's ass?
GraceToo@ferricoxide maybe they think he'll buy them a horse.
Sarah@AndGraceToo @ferricoxide lol. In all honesty I think it mostly is twofold: they are really into the idea that billionaires are smarter and better then everyone else, and that much of their identity is wrapped up in either Tesla or “owning the Libs.” Anything that runs contrary to these ideas would make them question parts of themselves and that is a very uncomfortable position to be in. It would be kind of sad if it weren’t so pathetic
@SarahOestreich @ferricoxide putting my snark aside, I agree.
Oh how I hate reality, sometimes. It can be *such* a buzzkill. It's especially so when you know – or at least have a reasonable suspicion of – why, but you're trying hard to fight your own pessimistic world-view. :p
silverhorseman@SarahOestreich @AndGraceToo @ferricoxide
I think we all would like to believe that powerful people are exceptional in some general way.
Mostly, they aren't.
I think we all would like to believe that powerful people are exceptional in some general way.
Mostly, they aren't.
@silverhorseman @SarahOestreich @AndGraceToo
…Because if they aren't all that exceptional, then what excuse do the rest of us have for not being high-flyers (or something)?
As an Xer, an *early* embrace of slacker-ism was a no-brainer. :)
CharliI was a fan-transwoman with a Model 3. My husband often mentions his attacks on the LGBTQ community. I'm somewhat eating crow now.
He appeals to Libertarians (who through fortune don't need social safety nets.) Mad-max culture I argued was a transition to a better place to make space accessible and force EVs on the road. Look at Steve Jobs to see how cults are needed for the iPhone, and the quick adoption of Android after.
We needed a Musk, but he's outlived usefulness.
There was a point in my life where I thought I was a libertarian, but, the current manifestation of libertarian bears no resemblance to the definition I learned in school. I feel like the term got perverted in much the same way the term "conservative" has been.
Maybe it's because I always tempered "ideals" with "but you need to factor in the real world".
Kathy E. Gill 🇺🇦@ferricoxide @Charli2 @Popehat
I call that “pragmatic idealism.”
Libertarianism as espoused by SV, EM, Rand Paul, et al, is naive, idealistic and uninformed (think public roads, for example). It is The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged on steroids.
Busted Flush@kegill @ferricoxide @Charli2 @Popehat
The problem with Ayn Rand is that her heroes are over-wrought cartoon characters. They are noble in way E. Musk most certainly isn't.
And if some John Galt really does invent something that harvests energy from the air, like wind power, it's attacked by people like Rand Paul because it threatens fossil fuel corps.
Libertarianism shares the same problem Communism has. It's a Utopian pipe dream that doesn't scale well past a handful of true believers.
@BustedFlush @ferricoxide @Charli2 @Popehat
No argument from me, BustedFlush.
Joe Hill 🇵🇸🇺🇦
@Charli2 @Popehat
As to "needing a Musk" I'd argue that what we really need is people having a better understanding of practical self-interest and an interest in posterity.
Going for a "green" economy doesn't need to be a matter of altruism. One could have recognized, "we can own an entire sector by hopping on early and establishing dominance". Near-term sacrifice to assure oneself good economic position, later. Good governments help make that practical ...rather than catering to dying models.
I think part of self-actualization is understanding of risk tolerance.
It helps add context to work relations, family responsibilities, etc
People who win the Ovarian Lottery or the business game can afford risks that others can't. This is the "bootstrappy" fallacy; rich see rich as better stewards, w/o risking social ladder place.
I suspect Musk would respond he is altruistic in that his personal quality of life would be much better on self care/strippers and cocaine.
Argot_Robbie@ferricoxide @Popehat Cognitive dissonance. He has told so many lies, and they've bought in. No turning back now.
JascollinsDon't you think there's some disinformation value to the 5-D Chess canard?
Even if by some (tiny) chance Elon himself doesn't believe it, his Brownshirts certainly do. And keeping people marinating in a Fourth Reich environment definitely impacts the Overton Window.
Comfortably Numb@ferricoxide It's the same reason regular MAGA kissing Trump's ass - if they stop doing this - if they stop defending them - they have to admit they have been conned, that they have been the marks all along. They will never do this.
Rorzer@ygalanter @ferricoxide this. This is also why people who get scammed online keep on giving and giving to their grifters until there's nothing left
Editrix@Popehat oh they're all INSISTING Aaron Rupar was endangering Musk's child, and sure yeah "journalists LOL haha."
Nathan@Popehat Maybe we could hold him to his newfound Safe Speech Absolutism.
@EarthlingNathan @Popehat Lol. Have you interacted with any of them?
Internal consistency isn't their strong suit.
Brandon@Popehat honestly I'm not sure it comes close to the abasement we saw during the Trump years.
Edit: though I guess that is subjective and varies for each of us.
Pēteris Krišjānis@Popehat I don't think these personalities ever attract people because of their "free speech" stance. Highly likely it is more about what they so eager to say.
panthermodern@Popehat there is no bottom? au contraire, it's bottoms all the way down, in more ways than one.
Lizard
Angry Centrist@Popehat The more pasty-pale imperial skin is showing, the farther the fawning sycophants must go to describe his shining raiment.
Dan Sugalski@Popehat Well, sacrifices must be made -- those boots aren't going to lick themselves.
frater mus
ML2@Popehat
Elon fans have always perplexed me. I kinda assume it's similar to how Trump has so many fans, but I honestly don't know for sure
Elon fans have always perplexed me. I kinda assume it's similar to how Trump has so many fans, but I honestly don't know for sure
AdamGoldberg@mathlover @Popehat I have a buddy that's an Elon fan. He mostly thinks that Elon is a true-life Iron Man.
Weird, yep.
@mathlover @Popehat It's definitely hard to deal with. Luckily he's stopped sending me Elon-fanboy stories and memes -- but maybe those don't exist anymore (fingers crossed)
Hand Pie@mathlover @Popehat it is like Trump, and Bojo, and Bolsonaro, and Alex Jones etc. A charismatic man who makes it OK to disengage from the disappointment politics of the liberal social justice elite and act like a self-serving, petulant toddler just like them, and still change the world for the better (for the right people, at least)
Phil Smythe@mathlover @Popehat Until about 2020 both SpaceX and Tesla were underdogs - predicted to fail but with a commendable mission. Musk’s toxicity less widely known than now. So some fans are a remnant of that era, I think.
Chris Carle@Popehat I mean, it makes sense when you consider their concept of free speech was always just intended to deflect from the consequences of their own actions and to bludgeon people they didn't like.
That, and Elon fans are just weird.
Anathema Device@anathema_device Where’s that raiders of the lost ark face melting gif when you need it? lmao
Doctor LURK@Popehat I wish I shared your respect for the hoi polloi, but I'm afraid the last several years have left me feeling completely unsurprised about people behaving this way.
Chris Bush@Popehat IF I MAKE MAGIC FUTURE ROCKET MAN HAPPY MAYBE HE’LL NOTICE ME AND GIVE ME A MILLION DOLLARS
@Popehat Sunk Cost Fallacy is a hell of a drug.
ypk 
@Popehat The emperor has no clothes...
Casual Observer@Popehat Elon supporters demonstrate the same cognitive dissonance that Trump supporters exhibit. That was once a source of concern for me, but I'm now ok with the fact that people can make their own choices, even if it leads them to oblivion.
Jesse Harris@Popehat Once again, there is no bottom.
Nicholas Weaver
Bianca
Rich Puchalsky 
I reply-guy this a whole lot, but this attitude towards free speech is perfectly consistent and everyone has it: they approve of speech that they like and want to get rid of speech they don't like. Lawyers have the idea that this is not how the US legal system works under the First Amendment, but the history of the left (including of course the whole "fire in a crowded theatre" thing) shows otherwise.
Laces@RichPuchalsky @Popehat The history of the left??? You mean like the ACLU protecting literal Nazis right to protest?? Lol, no one 'on the left' ever pretended free speech meant a right to a platform. That always came from the "cancel culture" cons.
I'm on the left: you've misread this. The fire in a crowded theatre case involved a socialist being imprisoned for political speech in the US
@RichPuchalsky Schneck was mostly overturned by Brandenburg in 1969. The fire in a crowded theater still stands though, i.e., making knowingly false police reports or 911 calls is still against the law.
@RichPuchalsky I'm calling out the "everyone wants to shut down speech they don't like." Because it's not true. If I use my buying power as a form of expression that's my free market choices and nothing to do with free speech guaranteed by the government. I support the ACLU protecting Nazis right to protest, because Larry Flint was correct, the speech you don't like is most important to protect.
@RichPuchalsky If someone was arrested for attending Jan 6 but never trespassed, vandalized, or broke any laws, then everyone I know "on the left" would be opposed to that arrest because it would be a clear violation of 1st amendment protections and we don't agree with those people at all. Perhaps that's not what you were saying but I'm so very tired of people conflating the right to disagree with having anything to do with the 1st amendment.
lovely, honey (she/her)@Popehat my working theory is that his boots are crusted in coke and that’s why his fans won’t stop licking them.
Coach Bo@Popehat "muah muah closer to the hole sir?"
Brian Dear@Popehat You have no idea how low the fans will go to grovel and debase in order to defend his majesty, always in the hopes of receiving even a nanosecond's passing nod from him, who, remember, is doing this all for humanity. To criticize him is to announce you hate humanity, see? I think that's the logic.
Pyperkub@Popehat It's still *anything* to pwn teh libs. The consistency of the arguments matters not.
Proof - the only policy the GOP House has coming into 2023 is trying to dig up dirt (real and imagined) on Dems.
Lovemypupper@Popehat <weird nerds defending Elmo.gif>