Carola Lilienthal
Henning SchwentnerHey #DDDesign community, I think it’s great that many of us have found our way to the fediverse and enjoying it. Maybe now is the time for a next step. Other communities have started their own Mastodon servers like phpc.social, ruby.social, or agilealliance.social. What do you think—should we have our own server (like ddd.social or mastoddd.one) as well?
@philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @mo @wps @janekf @oliver Thanks for all your answers! Many diverse ideas here 😃 Paging @ntcoding @TonyBologni @Heimeshoff @mathiasverraes @hofstef @yellowbrickc @yreynhout @dylanbeattie @JulieLerman @zsofideaz @Cyriux @tPl0ch @kenny_baas @joaorosa @weltraumpirat @ddoomen @trondhjort @martinschimak Do you have an opinion on this? 🙂
@philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @mo @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @yellowbrickc To summarize some of the discussion: so if mastodon.social and the like are too broad and ddd.social would be to narrow, would it then make sense that we join @indu and @nova (and also @kentbeck and @pragdave) and move over to Hachyderm?
Krisztina Hirth@hschwentner
I could, I was already thinking about it 👍
I could, I was already thinking about it 👍
Vaughn Vernon 🟦 🟨 🟧 🟪@hschwentner @philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @bitboss @mo @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @yellowbrickc @indu @nova @kentbeck @pragdave
No strong opinion here, but it seems like moving to a different server still limits options because you'll never have "everyone" there and topics will be limited by those who are there.
Besides, what does hachyderm mean? (I got a skin cancer scan on Wednesday and that's what comes to mind.) The only description I find is that it's a group of 'respectful tech professionals.' That's good. Still, I'd like to know more about why it's the place to be. (My choice for tilde.zone was based on finding a server that was accepting new accounts when others were closed due to heavy influx.)
sandy@VaughnVernon it's a pun. Mastodon -> pachyderm -> hachyderm.
@sandyarmstrong Ah, cleaver. And derm does mean what it usually means, apparently.
Jakub Konecki
squillace@VaughnVernon @hschwentner @philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @bitboss @mo @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @yellowbrickc @indu @nova @kentbeck @pragdave Given federation, unless some of your chosen servers are fully blocked, does it matter much? it isn't as fully discoverable as twitter is, because there's no TL algo to help you find people.....
DrBullhammer#hachyderm is like a hacky pachyderm. Good group, great admins. @nova has done a great job of keeping everyone informed as she moved the instance out of her basement
Cassandrich@VaughnVernon @hschwentner Not sure what "have everyone" is supposed to mean. Your followers and following can be from any instance - it doesn't matter unless they're on one your instance blocks. Just the firehoses (local and federated timelines, not very useful), "explore", and visibility into hashtags are limited by your choice of instance. And these things work best if you're on an instance with ppl whose values & interests overlap with yours.
@dalias @hschwentner Thanks. I know that. I question was possed that perhaps a group of individuals interested in some set of tech topics should move to hachyderm. My thoughts expressed the "why should I do that when I would still have to follow people not on hachyderm?" I don't mind doing so, but I don't know how that would "solve" the fediverse when it's not supposed to be "solved."
@VaughnVernon @hschwentner Avoiding following people on other instances isn't supposed to be a goal. Choice of instance is about (most importantly) having reliable operations and moderation. There's a sense of community in that too, and it helps discovering things you want to see, but there's no reason you need to try to get others to move to your instance.
@dalias As I said, I know that. Your continued assumptive comments aren't helping me, but thanks again 😅
@VaughnVernon @hschwentner OK, sorry - I guess I was misunderstanding what you were looking for.
Jeff Goldschrafe@VaughnVernon Respectfully, your question starts from the mistaken idea that Nóva's free, volunteer-run service cares whether you use it or not. People join this community because they like the people and the admins. Nobody has anything to sell you.
@shiftleftist @nova Thanks. I know that. A question was possed that perhaps a group of individuals interested in some set of tech topics should move to hachyderm. My thoughts expressed the "why should I do that when I would still have to follow people not on hachyderm?" I don't mind doing so, but I don't know how that would "solve" the fediverse when it's not supposed to be "solved."
Context matters.
Steve Bate@VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova I understand the question about moving. No matter which instance you choose, it's likely there will be accounts you want to follow on other instances. However, if there's a concentration of accounts with similar interests on a specific instance, moving to that instance may have local timeline and search (which is not federated) advantages.
Brian Campbell@VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova So, there are a couple of things that you choose when you choose an instance:
* Admin team
* Mod team (sometimes same as admin)
* Local and global feeds
The admin team determines whether the infrastructure is reliable and efficient.
The mod team can affect what you can say and who you can talk to.
The local and global feeds are ways of discovering discussions outside your follows, but can be useless if too big/unfocused
@VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova so to choose an instance, take a look at who the admin is, if they have any public info about how they keep the infra running, how they fund it, etc
Look at the moderators and mod policy; do they match with your moderation expectations? Will they allow trolls to make your life miserable? Will they cut you off from someone you want to follow because of some beef with the admin of that instance?
@VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova and then go check out the local and global feeds on the instance. Search for hashtags you are interested in on them. These are a few methods of discovery on Mastodon. On big, general purpose instances, I've found the local and global feeds too noisy to be useful. On Hachyderm, it's a focused enough community that I find conversations to join on the local feed fairly often, though the global feed is still a bit noisy.
@VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova so yeah, federation means that choosing an instance doesn't lock you in; you can still follow people from other instances, as long as the mods haven't defederated from them. But the admins and mods are a lot more visible and involved in Mastodon than something like Twitter, and who you share an instance with affects your local and global feeds.
Rich Lafferty 🐀@unlambda @VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova I'd add a little color to that by calling the mod team "trust and safety".
Admins make sure the system is available, secure, and running well, mod team makes sure it's a safe place for its users.
I moved here because I have a ton of confidence in @nova and @quintessence's approach to governance.
Matt Stine@mendel @unlambda @VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova @quintessence
I'm going to try to simplify this for you.
If you like the server you are on, you probably shouldn't move. If you move, it's unlikely that your experience will improve. It's far more likely to degrade.
Slice and dice that however you like with operational excellence, trust and safety, relevance of local feed, etc.
@mendel @unlambda @VaughnVernon @shiftleftist @nova @quintessence
I am not on hachyderm.io, but from all of @nova's operational transparency, it's obviously one of the best. I probably would be there had I not chosen @SDF first and fell in love with the place.
Vicente Herrera@VaughnVernon Hi Vaughn, pleased to meet you. Let me introduce myself so that way you know someone from hachyderm. I work as a Cybersecurity consultant at Control Plane, specialized on Kubernetes and Fintech. Many of us know at some degree @nova, and her constant stance for inclusivity, open source, and Kubernetes. So when she set up this server, we knew the kind of environment she would foster, the effort she would put into it, and how it will attract the same kind of people.
@VaughnVernon @nova Some of the people that came are very know in the tech and open source scene (and also people advocating for inclusivity in general), so they have attracted even more that want to be close to then, that is, in the same server. Althou Hachyderm maintainers have been overwhelmed by the avalanche of people, they have demonstrated a great effort on scaling up and keeping everything running, sharing live every technical detail and decision.
@VaughnVernon Although you can migrate your account again in the future, it's rather inconvenient, so you are right considering if this is the right choice. If it's not, that's ok also! You can read more about it here: https://github.com/hachyderm/community
Dennis Doomen@hschwentner @philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @mo @wps @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @Heimeshoff @mathiasverraes @hofstef @yellowbrickc @yreynhout @dylanbeattie @JulieLerman @zsofideaz @Cyriux @tPl0ch @kenny_baas @joaorosa @weltraumpirat @trondhjort @martinschimak What would be the benefit?
Trond Hjorteland@hschwentner Like it, but maybe too small? Go wider, perhaps? Also, from what I understand, it does require some work running, no? Moderation and such?
@hschwentner @philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @mo @wps @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @Heimeshoff @mathiasverraes @hofstef @yreynhout @dylanbeattie @JulieLerman @zsofideaz @Cyriux @tPl0ch @kenny_baas @joaorosa @weltraumpirat @ddoomen @trondhjort @martinschimak
👋
I am for simple using #dddesign I follow that for example.
An own server make sense for companies or other bounded contexts 😏 but I have no idea if it is worth the effort for us
👋
I am for simple using #dddesign I follow that for example.
An own server make sense for companies or other bounded contexts 😏 but I have no idea if it is worth the effort for us
Tobias Goeschel@yellowbrickc @hschwentner @philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @mo @wps @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @Heimeshoff @mathiasverraes @hofstef @yreynhout @dylanbeattie @JulieLerman @zsofideaz @Cyriux @tPl0ch @kenny_baas @joaorosa @ddoomen @trondhjort @martinschimak 👆What Krisztina said.
Cyrille Martraire@hschwentner @philipmay @mstine @ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @mo @wps @janekf @oliver @ntcoding @TonyBologni @Heimeshoff @mathiasverraes @hofstef @yellowbrickc @yreynhout @dylanbeattie @JulieLerman @zsofideaz @tPl0ch @kenny_baas @joaorosa @weltraumpirat @ddoomen @trondhjort @martinschimak I think we’re all more diverse than just DDD, look at all the fascinating things well beyond DDD that we discuss when we’re lucky to meet!
@Cyriux perfectly put 💚
Infinite State Machine@hschwentner my personal opinion (of a person that still lurks in mastodon.social) is that servers tied to specific topics are too narrow indeed. I'd rather favour an open index (maybe on the wiki of the ddd-crew GitHub repository), that everybody can contribute their "DDD Profile" with MRs. Then it's more about the community driving it, i.e. mentioning it in conversations and talks.
My 2 cents.
Philip May@hschwentner I would say yes! Sure. It helps to decentralize.
@hschwentner @ewolff contrarian here...I love, practice, and teach DDD professionally, but I have no interest in leaving my happy diverse SDF server for such a narrow topic space.
I honestly don't understand forming server communities based around something so narrow as a programming language or modeling technique. There's so much more to us than that. My two bits. Take them for what they are worth. 😂
@VaughnVernon @ewolff @bitboss what do you think about the idea of @hschwentner to have a mastodon server for DDD? I would love to hear your opinion! I would enjoy to have a DDD community server 🙏🏻😅
Eberhard Wolff@carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @hschwentner To be honest I’m not sure. I assume it’ll make it easier to follow all #DDD discussions but I am wondering whether there are alternatives.
Martin Otten@ewolff @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @hschwentner But would you then have separate accounts on instances by topic? ddd.social, microservices.social, roca.social … to me a more broadly themed instance about software architecture/development would be more interesting.
@mo @carolali @VaughnVernon @bitboss @hschwentner that is also what I am wondering and I don’t think I’ll separate the topics across multiple accounts
@ewolff @mo @carolali @bitboss @hschwentner
I just saw this. Thanks for sharing the idea, Carola and Henning.
Personally I think it is too narrow. And it would probably end up being a place for all kinds of technical questions around the tactical tools (Aggregates!!!), CQRS, and Event Sourcing. I agree with others that potentially requiring multiple accounts for different topics would be difficult to manage and likely information overload.
Is there a good way to deal with these challenges? How would WPS engage in this?
WPS – Workplace Solutions@VaughnVernon @ewolff @mo @carolali @bitboss @hschwentner we set up our own instance and we would also love to support (or provide) a community effort/server/project :-)
@wps @ewolff @mo @carolali @bitboss @hschwentner
Understood. What I meant is, am I and others required to have multiple Mastodon accounts? If so, how can the toots from 2+ be consolidated in one timeline? In my case I would want aggregation on my primary account: @VaughnVernon And how do I toot into the new one without using a different account?
If there are good answers for the above, how about a broader topic?
- StrategicSoftware
- SoftwareInnovation
- SoftwareStrategicInnovation
- SoftwareArchitecture
Oliver Libutzki@hschwentner what about something similar to @javabubble?
In my opinion it's impossible to decide for a topic related instance...
Therefore I run my own. 😃
Zsofi@hschwentner I would love the idea. However I'm not yet too familiar on Mastodon. Have no idea yet what it means to have an own server here. But I'm in 😀😀
@hschwentner could you edit the post and some hashtags to it?
@yellowbrickc Sure. Which ones besides #DDDesign?
@hschwentner this and #DDD should be enough.
If you look for the hashtag you will see that very few posts are tagged. I think this is what we (as a community) can easily fix. Having a server would be nice if people would move bc we could watch the local timeline but otherwise it would only mean work for the admins. I think @ddoomen asked: what is the problem to solve? Or is the extra work not an issue?
If you look for the hashtag you will see that very few posts are tagged. I think this is what we (as a community) can easily fix. Having a server would be nice if people would move bc we could watch the local timeline but otherwise it would only mean work for the admins. I think @ddoomen asked: what is the problem to solve? Or is the extra work not an issue?
@yellowbrickc @ddoomen You speak like true #dddesign ers: “tell me what the problem is before you come up with a solution” :-)
I see two points: a) I think we as a community want to contribute to the the fediverse and not just be the “invading force” that @[email protected] describes. b) for a sustainable network it is good to decentralize.
I see two points: a) I think we as a community want to contribute to the the fediverse and not just be the “invading force” that @[email protected] describes. b) for a sustainable network it is good to decentralize.
@hschwentner @ddoomen yes, both 👍
(I observed that I can't stop myself from thinking that way anymore 😆)
(I observed that I can't stop myself from thinking that way anymore 😆)
Indu@hschwentner I’m happy to be here at hachyderm. I love all the work @nova is doing here. This feels like home to me now. I feel safe here. There’s a lot, especially with moderation etc that I was concerned about Mastodon and it’s a lot of responsibility and I see the amazing work that’s happening here, so I wouldn’t want to move. 💕💕💕 #ddd #NovaIsAwesome
std::move@indu @hschwentner @nova That's true. Twitter was a platform to communicate. Hachyderm is home.
I feel bad for being part of the invading force, though.
Kenny (Baas) Schwegler@hschwentner I would not do that. I believe #dddesigm should be an unbounded community. Creating and joining your own server imo is creating a socially bounded community. @yellowbrickc @weltraumpirat @trondhjort
Now if there is a @RuthMalan server I would definitely join that 🥰
Tristan@hschwentner
I think it might be too narrow for the ones that only want one account. A compromise might be to create the community on a server anyway, standardise on a hashtag for posts (e.g. DDD, DDDCommunity) and the ones not members of the server can then follow the hashtag ... a great feature of mastodon.
I think it might be too narrow for the ones that only want one account. A compromise might be to create the community on a server anyway, standardise on a hashtag for posts (e.g. DDD, DDDCommunity) and the ones not members of the server can then follow the hashtag ... a great feature of mastodon.
Anton Stöckl ✅@hschwentner I think I don’t understand the fediverse good enough yet for a qualified opinion.
I know I only want one account and afaik you can move an account to other instances, you take you followership with you, but stuff like the history is gone!?
I know I only want one account and afaik you can move an account to other instances, you take you followership with you, but stuff like the history is gone!?
@TonyBologni I certainly agree that I don’t understand the fediverse good enough :-)