Dear LazyMastodon: Hey, we have this ancient 2008 Mac Pro, used to be the Family Mainframe and homework machine for the kids. All It does now is feed music to a DAC and run a Plex server. But it's hot and eats watts and MacOS is so old it won't run browsers or anything useful.

I think I'm gong to replace it with a basic Mac mini and a couple TB of outboard disks. What's a good choice for those disks?

Hmm a little linux or windows box would be way cheaper. I have like 20K songs in M4A though…

@timbray Absolutely.

#Linux rocks

@kikobar Will a Linux box play my m4a music?

@timbray yup. almost out the box.

You may need to install some 'ugly' codecs, but that should be it.

@kikobar Hmm I have some bad history with Linux and “almost”…
@timbray @kikobar i moved my old iTunes library to run under Plex on Linux a few years ago- works fine, including all the m4a files.
@cos @kikobar Will it do digital-out through the USB?

@timbray @kikobar dunno!

I tend to stream via the phone, iPad or Apple TV apps rather than playing direct. Though the same server does have an audioengine USB DAC and I run shairport-sync (which _just_ recently added Airplay 2 support).

@timbray in this case the 'almost' is because the m4a is not #OpenSource as far as I remember, so many Linux distros may not distribute the codecs out-of-the-box for not being FREE.

In case you chose a distro that didn't do it, you would need to run 1 sudo apt command that would be it.

I listen to m4a in my Linux boxes all the time, the support comes with a question at install like "would you like to add support to *ugly* formats?' - Answer YES to that and you are done.

@kikobar OK then. How do you take the music out of the box, digital on USB possible? I have a nice USB DAC to feed the big speakers.
@timbray @kikobar A USB DAC would work; or if you're using a Pi, you can add a digital output, e.g.: https://www.hifiberry.com/digis/
HiFiBerry Digi | HiFiBerry

@timbray @kikobar
All you need tob install is VLC or elisa
@away2thestars @kikobar OK yep that would work. But sometimes I want to shuffle all the Mozart or Peter Tosh or whatever, you know, with a UI.

@timbray

I think you're problem could be too many options to choose from...

#VLC, #Rythmbox, #Totem, etc.

@away2thestars

@timbray @kikobar
There are many nice MP3 players library, managers for #Linux , I chose #lollypop
But you can try others too
https://itsfoss.com/best-music-players-linux/
Top 11 Best Music Players for Linux [2024]

It isn't rocket science to play music on Linux, but you should have a great experience with a good music player!

It's FOSS
@timbray @away2thestars @kikobar the quodlibet music player may have a suitably geekaphilic UI :)
@timbray @kikobar ffmpeg on Linux is same as ffmpeg on Mac OS. Try it!
@timbray I use an old Dell OptiPlex I bought off eBay for cheap to fill that function at my house. It runs Fedora Workstation and it serves its purpose. YMMV.
@timbray Raspberry Pi, after running the M4A through ffmpeg?
@timbray Check out the System76 Meerkat5, it's what I use as my media server. It's basically an Intel NUC rebranded but won't break the bank. I have the machine running Manjaro at present, with no issues.
@timbray I don't see this as a problem... unless you mean with DRM.

Dear LazyMastodon, reporting back:
I ended up getting a new basic Mini because I didn't want to go back to USB-A and because that desk, in an end of the living room, already has a CalDigit Thunderbolt hub on it (they're great), so anybody who wants to use the screen/kbd/mouse/USB-DAC already on the desk only has to fool with one wire.

Got a 5T USB-powered Seagate on advice from @jwz - absurdly small. Copying over a couple of T on the old Mac at about 1.2G/minute. It'll be done tomorrow…

@timbray Just a couple TB? Samsung has some nice USB-C SSDs that top out around 4TB. For HDDs my Seagate IronWolf NAS drives have been great.

@timbray FWIW, our Plex instance is a headless Intel NUC backed by a Synology NAS.

for disks, i just buy whatever Backblaze's stats suggest is best:
https://www.backblaze.com/b2/hard-drive-test-data.html

Backblaze Hard Drive Stats

Hard Drive test data from the Backblaze data center. Backblaze is affordable, easy-to-use cloud storage.

@sogrady @timbray Same, minus the NUC. Some Synology boxen run Plex natively. Now *that's* lazyweb!
@timbray I gave away a 2008 on OfferUp earlier this year, the teenager that picked it up was so excited, warmed my heart. I replaced it with a Linux box 😬
@timbray this is not an opinion but mostly a question out of curiosity. Isn’t it cheaper to pay for streaming services these days? I’ve been itching to build my own home server to satisfy my geek needs 🤓 but I find it hard to justify, unless I’m doing the math wrong? 🧐
@rei I have a lot of pretty unique music from obscure CDs and friends' music and so on that isn't on streaming.
@timbray you got me at “obscure” 👌 🤘🏼
@timbray @rei ^My problem exactly. And I’ve invested so much time into file metadata that I’m reluctant to change away even from iTunes.
@timbray @rei #Apple doesn’t advertise it at *all* anymore but I pay $25/year for their #iTunesMatch service to either match my rips with their own content or transcode and store it in #iCloud as 256Kbps AAC. They emphasize it’s not a backup service (see: transcoding) but it’s really nice to have my unique music as accessible as regular #AppleMusic and #iTunes are. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204146
Subscribe to iTunes Match

iTunes Match gives you access to all of your music on all of your devices, even songs that you've imported from other sources such as CDs.

Apple Support
@timbray I am a fan of these drives. Not the fastest, but USB-powered, ~$20/TB, super reliable long-term, and small. I use them for all my backups and archives, I've got dozens of them: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VS8QCXC/
Amazon.com

@jwz Hmm might not be fast enough for Plex. Mind you haven't used that in a year…
@timbray I use one for my movie archive. Startup can be a little pokey but it never stutters during playback. I wouldn't use it for like video editing or anything though.
@jwz OK, that's what I needed to hear, thks.
@timbray You're probably aware but check out https://shucks.top and https://diskprices.com/
ShuckStop

Shuck 'em if you got 'em

@jake Good Lord.
@timbray what kinda stinks is you *just* missed a ton of good sales on external drives. WD had 14TB drives for $190 at one point.
@timbray i went with & would easily recommend seagate exos x18 drive. extremely high-quality high-mtbf enterprise drive with a 5-year warranty. top-of-it's class benchmarks. shockingly quiet at 30db. power consumption is quite average, 9w/5w active/idle. $300/pop. should last a very long time, so it represents a good life-time value to me.

@timbray mine are mostly connected via usb hard drive docks, which require external power. i have dual drive docks, which are under $50. they come with either a single usb port or one port for each drive & generally one port should be fine, but i wanted flexibility & got dual port docks.

jwz's portable drive suggestion makes good sense if your capacity needs are less & you want to plug in easy.

@timbray I have a NAS and just ordered a mini pc to replace all my Pis. (NAS doubles as Time Machine with Raid 1 and storage for media)
@timbray I do all this with a raspberry pi. There are even high end DACs if you are so inclined.
@timbray If you’re a Mac household you’ll be a lot happier with a Mac mini than with a Linux or Windows box. I’ve got an M1 Mac mini in the living room with a camera, attached to a TV, that we use as a Zoom box. I’ve used lots of cheap USB external drives, but lately I’ve gotten a couple of Sandisk portable SSDs. They are 4-5x the storage cost of spinning rust, but they are a lot smaller, quieter and faster.

@timbray you don't need spinning disks anymore for "a couple TB". Put any 2TB PCI-E NVME SSD in a USB-C enclosure (https://smile.amazon.com/SSK-Aluminum-Enclosure-Adapter-External/dp/B07MNFH1PX/ for example). **Much** faster and more reliable than anything mechanical. Regardless, even the slowest spinning rust is an order of magnitude more performance than a home media server needs so if you do that, anything will work. The 2.5" drives in a USB enclosure like the one jwz linked to work nicely and are close to silent.

If you don't intend to use this for any actual modern mac hooked to a display uses, a fanless $400 intel NUC will already be overkill feeling infinitely more powerful than your old thing.

@timbray Somewhat off topic, but you may be interested in this music server which runs on linux and various other platforms: https://minimserver.com/ (A friend of mine wrote it.)
MinimServer

@timbray If you could use a new backup solution, you can buy a Sonology box and run Plex on that.
@timbray can you report back what you end up choosing? I have an old Mac Mini that's probably due for replacement at some point and have a similar use case.
@bradford Since all it does is serve music and video, I'm going to get a cheap used Mac Mini and one of those Seagate 5T drives that @jwz recommended.

@timbray @bradford Old Mac minis hold up surprisingly well. Even a 2011 i5 is absolutely performant enough for watching movies or even streaming with OBS.

I've kept even older Minis in service by replacing the disk with a $30 SSD, just because I like keeping them out of landfill as long as possible. Until recently the club's lighting controller was still a 2006 model, I think.