Chocolate Chimpanzee
Woozle HypertwinAcid test for any social network or fedi instance:
If you say "fuck you" to a Nazi, who gets banned?
Coeur66 
@woozle the nätzi!
Joy Denebeim@woozle who's going to actually let a Nazi hang around long enough to hear you telling him f*** you? As soon as you killfile em the message's going to disappear
malady@woozle neither, unless either does some other actions following that
Proxima Centauri@Cara @woozle Swastika is enough to get banned.
Biggest instance mastodon.social is operating in Germany.
Where you can be fined or jailed for it:
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547
Ragon2@woozle Nobody you're on Elon's era Twitter
Morgan
Joan of Cat (she/her) 😼@raphaelmorgan @Ragon2 @woozle
this.
Elon doesn't believe in free speech. I'm still suspended from Twitter, after all, for wishing harm upon a mass murderer.
@ceruleanarc @raphaelmorgan @woozle This was a joke about twitter almost having no moderation now because everybody got fired, but of course, reality would be the Nazi keeping their account, and anyone else getting banned, because like, "free speech"
Koukin@woozle To beggin with, "fuck you" or no, I will not trust a social media who accept a nazi.
@Koukin I'm presuming that the instance mods didn't realize until whatever confrontation made that phrase necessary -- but yeah, detecting and defenestrating the Nazi prior to said incident would be far preferable.
Yohannon
Romain_59
Aamer Rahman: Is it really ok to punch nazis?
nick@woozle I don’t like online harassment culture because it often results in otherwise positive communities eating themselves alive over petty disagreements and collapsing.
But Nazis are fucking Nazis. Nazis can fuck right off into a volcano. I’d throw their whole instance in after them. I just added “Nazi punks fuck off” as a community pillar the other day for extra clarity: no tolerance for fascists
But Nazis are fucking Nazis. Nazis can fuck right off into a volcano. I’d throw their whole instance in after them. I just added “Nazi punks fuck off” as a community pillar the other day for extra clarity: no tolerance for fascists
Englebert3rd@woozle I put both Musk and nazi in the same post and definitely no ban here.
Wendy Lady@woozle there's been dozens of times I got temp banned from both FB & Birdhellsite for telling racists and/or Nazis to fuck off. The last time I was temp banned from FB for telling someone to fuck off, it was a 7 day ban so I said "let me do us both a favor and I'll just break up with FB."
Janne Oksanen@woozle What's the content warning guideline for telling nazis to fuck off?
CeeDub70@woozle
Well anyway, just count me on the side of the person(s) spewing profanities at Nazis and their ilk.
Well anyway, just count me on the side of the person(s) spewing profanities at Nazis and their ilk.
Maxi 12x 💉@woozle But why "acid"?
@frumble Damn, you ask the tough questions. 😅
(I demand to speak to my rules-lawyer before responding.)
@woozle I only know about this "Acid2" browser test and LSD parties in the 60s.
Ed G.
LilJennie@frumble @woozle "Acid test" is an expression meaning an extreme test that pushes something to its limit; it comes from the practice of using nitric acid to test for fake gold, since real gold wouldn't be affected.
A "litmus test" is a test to see where someone stands on an issue and also comes from chemistry, in which litmus paper turns pink in an acid and blue in a base.
Sorry, pathological explainer.
Sébastien Night@woozle On this instance, both 🙂
flere-imsaho 🇺🇦@sebastien @woozle oh, so it's a *polite* authoritarian instance?
@mawhrin @woozle lol...I knew I'd be getting flak for replying. But hey, the question shows up in my feed, so what's it for?
So - I think cultivating a space for cordial civil discussion is important. The non-Nazi user would be expected (in our community) to report the offending post/user to mods so the offending behavior can be blocked from the entire instance. This benefits the community. Insults don't.
(I wouldn't *ban* the "non-Nazi" user, but they'd get a warning)
So - I think cultivating a space for cordial civil discussion is important. The non-Nazi user would be expected (in our community) to report the offending post/user to mods so the offending behavior can be blocked from the entire instance. This benefits the community. Insults don't.
(I wouldn't *ban* the "non-Nazi" user, but they'd get a warning)
I'd say that's within the scope of reason, especially given the possible ambiguity around whether the "Nazi" really understands the face-eating leopard they're getting into bed with.
They may be just unwittingly repeating disinformation, or something that sounds like it.
There's a lot to be said for attitude-checking: does the "Nazi" adjust their views in response to new information, or do they just get angrier?
@sebastien @woozle it's grand; i'm just saying that i can't be arsed to care for a community that polices the language so.
a society that enforces politeness always leans authoritarian.
@mawhrin @woozle politeness and civility are different.
Being polite: using good manners to not offend others.
Telling someone "You're a fucking genius" is not polite, but we'd have no rule against that :-)
Being civil: behaving in a respectful / benevolent fashion.
Enforcing politeness is useless, because it creates communities that are politely toxic.
The problem with "Fuck you" is not "Fuck".
Being polite: using good manners to not offend others.
Telling someone "You're a fucking genius" is not polite, but we'd have no rule against that :-)
Being civil: behaving in a respectful / benevolent fashion.
Enforcing politeness is useless, because it creates communities that are politely toxic.
The problem with "Fuck you" is not "Fuck".
@sebastien @woozle you did just the very thing here. thanks for making my point for me.
A good moderator understands what you just said.
Too many moderators don't, and that's when things can end up at "fuck you".
How the argument is handled at that point is key.
That also seems sus. What did the non-Nazi do wrong?
@woozle Using an offending third party as an excuse for verbal violence is not great. It's pretty clear that changing people's opinions (especially if they espouse extremist ideologies) is hard. Changing their opinions through insulting them is definitely not going to achieve anything.
You know what achieves something? Blocking them from the instance so the whole neighbourhood is safer.
You know what achieves something? Blocking them from the instance so the whole neighbourhood is safer.
That's kinda exactly what I'm talking about: does the admin recognize that the Nazi is the one who primarily needs removal or censure, or do they take a "both sides" / "I don't care who started it" false-equivalence approach, or (worst) do they look strictly at "civility" and decide that the person who used a bad word is clearly the offending party?
@woozle Well, I've found that when you're with your right kind of people, these questions don't really come up. So I have the privilege to never have to wonder about that issue you raised here (and I've run 40,000-people strong online communities)... The other poster in this thread (I'm using Tusky and can't easily find his handle) says he wouldn't care for a "benevolent dictature" like our instance.
That's what's so great about Mastodon. We crossed paths, had conversation, all good.
That's what's so great about Mastodon. We crossed paths, had conversation, all good.
@sebastien You're kind of reinforcing my original point, in that fedi allows us to move between niches without losing all of the connections that make it valuable -- and observing how disputes are resolved within those spaces is an important part of finding one that works for each of us as individuals.
@woozle A guy comes in the neighbourhood and starts painting swastikas on the walls, they need to get arrested.
You start a fist fight with them, and now the cops have two problems: a Nazi, and a brawl. Some neighborhoods don't want either the Nazi nor the brawler around.
You start a fist fight with them, and now the cops have two problems: a Nazi, and a brawl. Some neighborhoods don't want either the Nazi nor the brawler around.
That assumes the police will recognize the problem and act accordingly.
I think part of what I am highlighting, in the original post, is the fact that too many venues won't notice/recognize that there's a problem until someone curses (or starts physically resisting microaggression -- "what's wrong with a little painting? where's the harm? He was just expressing himself. You against free speech or something?").
@woozle ah I get it. Well then it just wouldn't be a great neighbourhood to stay in, and the world is big, so I'd just pack up 😄
carodjah!✨at the disco✨@woozle @Red_Shirt_no2 my original twitter account got banned for replying to an account that said cops should kill all leftist protesters, while that account received zero punishment.
Foxymoron@woozle hope that's obvious.
Andreas K@woozle That depends upon the context.
If the Nazi was quiet and minding his business, and you started hurling abuse at him?
If the Nazi is in a lively discussion with you? And you end the discussion with “F%ck you”?
If the Nazi is abusing you and comment “f%ck you” before blocking him?
Jokingly, my Stalinist self strongly dislikes Nazis, but they are humans as such.
Toots are by default 500 characters long, but that's still often not enough context to assess the situation.
(And yes, a good day is if people complain about me being a Stalinist lefty and a Nazi righty, then I know that I'm nicely centred)
And you can take my comment above “lively discussion with a Nazi” with a grain of salt, many Nazis tend not to accept the right to live of the others in their core beliefs. Hence, there is not much left to discuss with them.
@yacc143 I think that's kinda definitional to Naziism, no? (See my response to your previous comment.)
Thing is, "Nazi" is definitionally "someone who advocates hurting other people for no good reason".
I don't see how more context is needed.
Drazi CrendravenThe Nazi, obviously.
svegress@woozle You. Your language is the offense. You're the one who is making a judgement of what that other person is. Stay cool if you want to have a reasonable argument.