Mastodawn

Zorin =^o.o^=Nov 19, 2022

@[email protected] One of the big problems with "the algorithm" for me and many others is that we simply STOPPED seeing content from people we want to see, and started seeing MORE content from people being reactionary, fandom drama, call-outs, and the like.

The algorithm made the experience a lot worse for me and others, and turned our timelines into a shit show.

I'm okay with some subtle algorithmic sorting, but rather then bringing conflict forward, to bring accounts forward we frequently interact with.

Zorin =^o.o^=Nov 19, 2022

@[email protected] Also the algorithm shouldn't completely take over. Bring SOME content forward, but make sure ALL the content is displayed. Don't suppress content with certain keywords like "commission" and make sure we see stuff reliably from EVERYONE we follow.

Yes, even people we don't interact with often. Because suppressing their content is a self-reinforcing problem!

Zorin =^o.o^=Nov 19, 2022

@[email protected] When I switched to "Latest Tweets" after being on "Home" unknowingly for a long time I started seeing tweets from people I hadn't seen anything from in months, and that's when it really struck me just how BAD the algorithm is.

So yeah, it might be a good idea but it was a horrible execution. Enjoy your social media vacation. :)

@zorinlynx @jon Interestingly, I had the opposite experience.
I changed to 'latest tweets' at some point, and after a while I noticed I hadn't heard from people. If I checked their profiles, they were still posting, but I had just missed them by not being online at the time.

When I turned the algorithm back on, I suddenly got their tweets showing up again, raised to my attention even if they were made 4-5 hours before.

Now I use the algo for the first morning visit and change to timeline after

Ged Maheux Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @[email protected] @zorinlynx this is because Twitter never allowed you to save your reading position and why using 3rd party clients was a superior reading experience on Twitter. I could never use the official client because of these reasons and it’s one of the reasons why we developed Twitterrific in the first place.

Jason Parsons Nov 20, 2022

@gedeonm
Amen to this. I like seeing things in chronological order, but I want to know what I've already seen. Twitter made both of those goals difficult.

@_intothevoid @jon @zorinlynx

pgcommunication Nov 20, 2022

@gedeonm @_intothevoid @jon @zorinlynx I rarely encountered most of the problems people complain about with Twitter. No ads. No crazy tweets elevated by the algorithm. No missed posts from infrequent posters of great content.

How was that possible? Third-party browsers (Talon, Plume, etc), chronological mode, extensive use of lists, and TwitterListManager. I really hope a rich ecosystem of 3rd-party software develops around Mastodon.

Rich Bruchal Nov 20, 2022

@[email protected] @gedeonm @_intothevoid @pgcommunication @zorinlynx Lists were the game changer for me.

Eeeee Woooo Nov 20, 2022

@richbruchal @[email protected] @gedeonm @_intothevoid @pgcommunication @zorinlynx ditto. Lists made Twitter usable. I’m trying it here but it’s buggy so far.

Michael Gemar Nov 20, 2022

@jon @_intothevoid @gedeonm @pgcommunication @zorinlynx @richbruchal Amen! I used Twitter exclusively with lists. I found it easier to know what general topic area I was in, and it meant that folks I wanted to see in that area were always surfaced.

Niels🛰️Nov 21, 2022

@pgcommunication @gedeonm @_intothevoid @[email protected] @zorinlynx as a casual twitter and mastodon user; never used any third party browser, lists and listmanager. That truly sounds like a day job.

Brian May 🐧Nov 23, 2022

@pgcommunication @gedeonm @_intothevoid @jon @zorinlynx I stopped using 3rd party apps when I realised they were stuck using polling to find new tweets, unlike the official app which supports streaming. At least at the time, which was years ago. Probably would go back though if I still used Twitter.

Strypey May 16, 2023

@pgcommunication
> I really hope a rich ecosystem of 3rd-party software develops around Mastodon

There is such a rich ecosystem of software you don't even need to use Mastodon. You can follow and interact with accounts on Mastodon using dozens of other software options, each with their own unique flavour and set of features:

https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous

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@gedeonm @_intothevoid @zorinlynx
@penguin_brian

Themed servers - Fediverse.Party - explore federated networks

Let's make social media free, federated and fun! Fediverse.Party is your guide into the world of decentralized, autonomous networks running on free open software on a myriad of servers across the world. No ads and no algorithms. Join Fediverse and become part of the new interconnected Web!

Strypey May 16, 2023

@pgcommunication
Even sticking with Mastodon, there are plenty of apps available and many of them taste better than the vanilla Mastodon apps:

https://delightful.club/delightful-fediverse-clients/

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@gedeonm @_intothevoid @zorinlynx @penguin_brian

delightful fediverse clients

Delightful curated lists of free software, open science and information sources.

Strypey May 16, 2023

One thing the #fediverse does need is better documentation of all the many software options. Reviews, guides, feature comparison charts etc that can help people quickly find the apps most likely to suit their needs - and still being actively maintained - without spending frustrating hours playing software roulette.

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@pgcommunication @gedeonm @_intothevoid @zorinlynx @penguin_brian

Strypey May 16, 2023

Projects like fediverse.party, delightful.club and fediversereport.com do some of the research required, but there's so much more that could be done on presentation.

@pgcommunication @gedeonm @_intothevoid @zorinlynx @penguin_brian

zopieux Nov 20, 2022

@gedeonm Thanks for putting words on my Twitter experience in the past few years. 3rd party Android client Twidere allowed me to come back where I had stopped reading at any time. I followed very few accounts, so I /wanted/ to see everything. I didn't experience FOMO nor did I feel pressured into spending hours to catch up. As a bonus the UI was super snappy.

Brendan Jones Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @jon @zorinlynx @gedeonm why am I only finding out about twitterific as I’m leaving Twitter?!

Zorin =^o.o^=Nov 20, 2022

@Brendanjones @_intothevoid @[email protected] @gedeonm Yeah some of the third party clients were great.

My favorite client was Tweetbot, but I drifted away from it when Twitter neutered the API. Its developer is working on something similar for Mastodon so I'm looking forward to that if it comes about.

Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart Nov 21, 2022

@gedeonm @_intothevoid @Brendanjones @zorinlynx @jon oh!!! Yes, we need better clients using the open APIs.

Wraithe Nov 20, 2022

@[email protected] @gedeonm @_intothevoid @zorinlynx

thanks so much to you and your team for Twitteriffic it’s been worth every penny I’ve paid over the years. And I’m looking forward to mastodon accounts/client if one is coming!

Bynkii Nov 20, 2022

@Wraithe @[email protected] @gedeonm @_intothevoid @zorinlynx TAKE MY MONEY!!!

Ged Maheux Nov 23, 2022

@zorinlynx @[email protected] @_intothevoid @Wraithe Thanks so much for these kind words. They help a lot esp now here near the end of Twitter. 💕🖖

Marie-Alice ☣Nov 20, 2022

@gedeonm @_intothevoid @jon @zorinlynx This! Being able to earmark a point in your timeline seems so blindingly obvious if you want your users to be in control... The timeline randomly refreshing is soooo infuriating, with all the scrolling to get back at this tweet you just read and wanted to open the link inside (to say nothing about the nested time travel involved when it happens several times in a row)

Vidar Hokstad / Galaxy Bound Nov 20, 2022

@gedeonm @_intothevoid @[email protected] @zorinlynx For my part, there is no possible way I could keep up, so a reading position would not help. I *like* having "the algo" surface what I'm most likely to engage with. I *don't like* the lack of ability to control it (e. g. say "I want to see this person no matter what") . Algos under user control would be my ideal scenario. Rev chron is a big step back for me, saved reading position or not.

Stace Nov 21, 2022

@vidarh Agree 💯 I would be completely happy with a huge list of options to select and customise my algorithm. People I always want to hear from, and subjects too. I'd like to be able to rate scale 1 to 10 how badly I want certain topics, like maybe I want 5/10 news, 5/10 health news, 3/10 IT community post, 3/10 social chit-chat, and 2/10 nice pictures.

@gedeonm @jon @zorinlynx

Tomalak Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @zorinlynx @jon ...and once you check the profiles of people you care about, you will see that even the "Latest Tweets" timeline is quite algorithmic. Easily 1/3 of the content of the people I interact with *the most* is never shown to me on the "Latest Tweets" timeline.

I think the divide is not between those who struggle with chron timelines/those who don't, but between people who follow *people*, and those who follow hype.

Laura 💙💛Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @zorinlynx @jon I prefer chronological order, and I've always used it whilst being perfectly well aware that it means that I will miss some people's posts. I take that as a given considering the global nature of the entire internet. That alone means that you will always miss something which might be of interest to you.

Michael Valiant ✅ ⚔️🚀📚Nov 20, 2022

@jon @_intothevoid @zorinlynx I think this is the best use case. The algo for catchup when you haven’t been on for a while, then timeline. Out of curiosity, approx. how many people did you follow?

Stace Nov 21, 2022

@Michaelvaliant

Not many. only about 103.

David Rolfe Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @zorinlynx @jon same experience here, so I’m chiming in to say “both is good”

teachermugabo Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @zorinlynx @jon fascinating!

Ali Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @zorinlynx @jon That's why I use lists, as it means I can prioritise what I see, but still get it in reverse chronological order. Have lists for family, close friends, wider friend groups, fandom stuff, journos etc and read some of them every time I log in, and dip in to others if I have time to kill or there's something specific going on. That way I don't get swamped but can still read stuff in a logical order.

Cynthia Zimmerman Nov 20, 2022

@_intothevoid @zorinlynx @jon I started doing same thing, alternating between the two and also going to people's timelines that I'm following and found alot I might never see. I didn't mind this, sort of like a deep dive on what interested that person.