RussInCheshireNov 9, 2022

I made my first foray into publishing. It's ... weird.

First: pre-orders for my book exceeded £120k, and top 10 in Sunday Times, which is lovely.

But then I find out that translates to about £8k income for me because

- Amazon take 60%
- Distribution takes 10%
- I have to fund any additional prints of the book
- Publishers take half of what's left
- And I don't get anything - ANYTHING - for a year.

How do people make a living at this? Seriously? How?

Show threadRussInCheshire

I'm seriously considering self-publishing from now on. I can design promo and sales websites, design covers, typeset the book, market it via social media.

All I need is a printer and a warehouse, and how hard can it be to get that? Or just do it digital-only.

The entire industry seems swamped with needless delays, needless expenses, and needless layers of managers and editors.

Nov 9, 2022 at 9:34pmWeb
Show threadthe other grumpy pharmacist ☑️Nov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire BUT you don't have the access to marketing..Thats where your current publishers are bridging the gap..but self publishing is never the way
Show threadRussInCheshireNov 9, 2022
@richardeggleston I did 100% of the marketing for the book. No, not quite: 0.7% of sales came via the publisher's email newsletter. The rest: via my twitter account.
Show threadthe other grumpy pharmacist ☑️Nov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire Fair enough.. I didnt realise that. Having been involved with previous unbound publications I thought they did 'THAT' bit.. In that case go for it
Show threadJonathan DownieNov 10, 2022
@richardeggleston @RussInCheshire Marketing, QC, layout, design and editing are what I rely on my publisher for.
Show threadAndy JonesNov 11, 2022

@DrInterpreter @richardeggleston @RussInCheshire

Absolutely this. Same with me. And I'm not entrepreneurial enough to handle all that. Plus I have had good experiences regarding marketing. Far more disappointing ones though.

Show threadMaggieRawlingsNov 10, 2022

@RussInCheshire @richardeggleston

Exactly

Show threadRichard PierceNov 9, 2022
@richardeggleston @RussInCheshire don't entirely agree. Authors who have been trad published often move to self-pub, and become hybrid authors (like me), but generating revenue from self-pub is v v difficult. Even best-case scenario is 3 months to write (4h/d on top of 8h/d working) plus 6-month marketing campaign for which I have never had time. Self-pub is difficult but much of it is high-quality (and some absolute shite writing, tbh).
Show threadAndy JonesNov 11, 2022

@richardeggleston @RussInCheshire I disagree that self-publishing is never the way. Lots of people doing very well. So well they've decline trad publishing offers.

Also, the majority - vast majority - of books/authors get little to no marketing from their publishers. The publishers are working hard but generally under-staffed and can only effectively service a few books. Usually cash cows and debuts. Too many books being published.

Of course there are benefits to trad.

Show threadLiam GulliverNov 9, 2022

@RussInCheshire and it's not exactly a short tome.

Is it possible to get advances or I guess folks maybe supplement them with freelance pieces?

Or is it folks just churn them out as fast as possible and see what happens?

Show threadRedCelia 🇪🇺🇮🇹🇺🇦🇦🇫💙😷Nov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire speaking as a bookseller, I would advise against self publishing tbh. I am sure there is a huge amount of faff in going through a publishing house, but nothing like the faff of trying to do it alone, even before you try to get the books into actual shops.
Show threadJürgen HubertNov 10, 2022

@RedCelia @RussInCheshire I dunno, I found the work relatively straightforward.

It _is_ quite a bit of extra work, but it's manageable.

Show threadRedCelia 🇪🇺🇮🇹🇺🇦🇦🇫💙😷Nov 13, 2022
@juergen_hubert @RussInCheshire I am glad it worked for you, I can see that Barnes and Noble list your German folktale book for sale on their website, but can't find a single shop stocking it in the US and UK bookshops don't even seem to list it. Which is what I mean about the difficulty of getting self published books into shops. I am sure the book is great but without the heft of a publisher behind it readers can't find out.
Show threadSarah LadyNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire maybe Unbound? So not quite self published but pre-funded?
Show threadRussInCheshireNov 9, 2022
@sarahlady they're my publisher
Show threadSarah LadyNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire ah dammit, hadn’t realised. It does always feel like the house always wins, even with an ‘indie’. It’s why @jackjewers and @CJDaugherty set up their own imprint, to gain some level of control.
Show threadNickNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire Might be worth taking a look at Leanpub if you don't want to do absolutely everything yourself. You get 80% of the sale price when publishing via their platform.
Show threadArtOfNoiseNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire 60%! I am ASTONISHED.
Show threadChris Doc Strange ☑️ 🇪🇺⚧️✌️📻🎥📚Nov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire I did mine through Amazon KDP
Show threadRussInCheshireNov 9, 2022

@chrisdocstrange I'll look into it. 3 quick questions

- Would you do it again?
- Was it worthwhile, financially?
- Did it end up being a massive ball-ache?

Show threadChris Doc Strange ☑️ 🇪🇺⚧️✌️📻🎥📚Nov 9, 2022

@RussInCheshire the books sell slowly, I use Amazon prime when I need copies myself and they're pretty cheap.

My problem was publicity and I never launched it.

With KDP you get paid monthly on both book and kindle. You can also do Audible if you get it recorded.

Show threadRussInCheshireNov 9, 2022
@chrisdocstrange Thanks - if you need me to, I'd be happy to retweet (on Twitter, where I've got a big audience) a link to it. It all helps! Send me details if you'd like me to
Show threadChris Doc Strange ☑️ 🇪🇺⚧️✌️📻🎥📚Nov 9, 2022

@RussInCheshire thanks Dude, that's really kind of you. It's free to read on kindle if you have prime. It's "A Strange Way to Stage Hypnosis :The Honest Hypnotists Guide." rolls off the tongue 😝

Amazon.com https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0764489MJ?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_ts_3649HK1KJ53F68Z9MR7N

Show threadRussInCheshireNov 9, 2022
@chrisdocstrange Done!! Hope it helps x
Show threadChris Doc Strange ☑️ 🇪🇺⚧️✌️📻🎥📚Nov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire thank you 😊👏 you're a star 😉🎉
Show threadChris Doc Strange ☑️ 🇪🇺⚧️✌️📻🎥📚Nov 9, 2022

@RussInCheshire you might enjoy our Anti Tory Comedy Sketch Show
http://www.strangemole.co.uk

If you ever want to make a guest appearance, you're always welcome 😉👍

The Strange Mole Show - The Anti Fascist, Comedy Podcast | a podcast by Chris Doc Strange

This British Comedy Sketch Show tips a nod to the all time classics, Round the Horn, Hancocks Half Hour, Steptoe and Son, The Goon Show and Movies by Mel Brooks. Doc Strange and the Dude delve deep into the World psyche. We cover the topical, factual and ...

Show threadChris Doc Strange ☑️ 🇪🇺⚧️✌️📻🎥📚Nov 9, 2022

@RussInCheshire I meant to say, it's not a ball ache, but pay someone to set it up for you. These KDP experts who used to be Createspace admins.

Once it's set up, you can add books and content really easily.

Yes, I'll do it again.

It's like having my own publishing house in my pocket.

Show threadJürgen HubertNov 10, 2022

@RussInCheshire @chrisdocstrange

- Yes
- Combined with my Patreon, I have now made about €1500 in profit after the second published book. I expect these numbers to rise a _lot_ higher as I publish more books
- Sure, it's some extra work, but nothing unmanageable.

Show threadGordon AnthonyNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire Amazon provide self-publishing using Print on Demand for paperback copies, so no warehouse required. Royalties aren’t great on paper copies, and you need to do all the marketing, but it is an option if you don’t mind that. And only a small percentage of writers make a living at it.
Show threadDarrell Pringle 🎬Nov 9, 2022
You’ve probably already done this @RussInCheshire but worth taking a look at Lulu and Blurb. I seem to remember Lulu is more cost effective overall but Blurb is super simple and polished (drag and drop easy).
Show threadFish Id WardrobeNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire Most writers benefit from an editor. But you can always hire one, if you want one.
Show threadRichard EarneyNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire I just published a book (a photobook)
Apart from postage, packaging and payment processed (Stripe) and the cost of printing - the rest is yours.
It is a bit harder to sell and distribute that way, but much more satisfying and you don’t have to pay Amazon most of your profilts!
So go for it 😄
Show threadJeppe Fihl-PearsonNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire Have a look at https://martin.kleppmann.com/2020/09/29/is-book-writing-worth-it.html. It's from an author of a technical book, where he talks about his experience with it and if it's worth it
Writing a book: is it worth it? — Martin Kleppmann’s blog

Show threadtommyndavis1952Nov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire try self publishing with these people been going 30 years https://www.facebook.com/bookwormretford/
Bookworm of Retford

Bookworm of Retford, East Retford. Gefällt 810 Mal · 108 Personen sprechen darüber. From 1992 to 2018, Bookworm was a shop in Retford. Now it is a bespoke ordering service for any book (old or new)...

Show threadgrahamorrissNov 9, 2022

@RussInCheshire There are certainly fulfilment options out there.

EG https://www.cloudfulfilment.co.uk/content-hub/media-fulfilment

I know little about this other than what the website tells you, despite the fact that I built it. 🤣

Media Fulfilment & Distribution | Cloud Fulfilment | Cloud Fulfilment

Specialist media fulfilment and distribution services for online book, DVD and music stores.

Show threadBluehatNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire As your fame and marketability increases, you’ll be able to dictate terms with publishers. Self publishing does seem to be good option though. BTW, still enjoying your book. Writing style is brilliant.
Show threadTed Smith #ProEUNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire There are plenty of short run publishers about now. I’m sure you’ll sell shed loads, but what you might lose on the more expensive printing costs you might easily make up by not needing somewhere to store them. Nice dry warehousing facility don’t come cheap.
Show threadTom MoitiéNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire my partner's friend runs an author services agency who specialises in self publishing and is based in Macclesfield, I can put you in touch if you like?
Show threadRichard PierceNov 9, 2022
@RussInCheshire you've not factored in marketing time or reach in that.
Show threadСер Пітер ЛордNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire
Been there, done that. We didn't allow anywhere near enough budget for marketing the book: I'd say around and additional 60% of the production costs. Many evenings and weekends spent "getting the content right" for basically break-even returns. The result was well-received, but "never again"...
Show threadDavid J WhiteNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire
I work with book printers in China for the last 15 years if you do go that route.
Amazon's 60% is robbery tho!
Show threadScimon ProctorNov 10, 2022

@RussInCheshire I would love a series of "Another year in Tory" smaller books you can keep putting out.

Hopefully not for *too* long.

Show threadRich 🔶UK #RejoinEUNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire the result was a good book though. So there’s that. #thedecadeintory
Show threadRich 🔶UK #RejoinEUNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire sorry, didn’t see the breakdown first. That’s terrible . Isn’t there a self publishing service called Lulu? Yes, https://www.lulu.com/
Online Self-Publishing Book & eBook Company | Lulu

Self-publish and print books on demand. Sell worldwide, grow profits, and scale with tools for authors, businesses, and publishers—no inventory needed.

Lulu
Show threadGOMinTrainingNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire given what you write, my biggest concern would be keeping you out of court. If you do choose the self-pub route, find good legal advice to prevent any libel cases. Other than that, maybe take a look at https://davidgaughran.com for tips on what to consider.
Writer Blog • Book Marketing Advice • Free Resources • David Gaughran

Writer blog of David Gaughran, focusing on marketing advice for self-publishers, filled with valuable free resources for authors.

David Gaughran
Show threadJonathan DownieNov 10, 2022

@RussInCheshire Who are you publishing with? I get an advance and a set % of the wholesale price of each sale. The advance gets paid back, then the rest of the royalties are mine, plus copying & lending rights. It's still not a lot of money but my books aren't exactly bestsellers anyway.

My understanding and the vague figures I've seen is that >90% of all authors don't live on just that.

Show threadMel ElliottNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire I’ve self published for years and created many books with other publishers (which is only worth it if the advance stacks up in my opinion). Self publishing can be great but it’s hard work.
Show threadDave_BlogsNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire
Worth looking at running Kickstarter's for it as well to raise the funds for publishing in advance. Effectively you get your pre-sales money up front to actually fund the publication. Lots of people do this tp get themselves published when they know they have an audience like you.
Show threadSharman HagueNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire Quite a few replies warning about marketing costs. How much marketing has there been for this book outside your own social media? I loved your ‘It’s my publisher wot made me do it and please donate to local #foodbanks or #TrussellTrust ‘ ends to your threads. Any idea how much of £120K they have received as a result of your efforts?
Show threadRussInCheshireNov 10, 2022

@Sharman I have data for sales through the publisher's site. About 70% is direct traffic from my Twitter. 2% from the publisher's twitter, and another 2% from publisher emails to their customers. The rest is organic search engine traffic.

So I think I've got marketing covered, at least as far as direct (ie not retailer) sales, which is the bulk of it so far

Show threadSharman HagueNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire That’s what I was thinking- you’ve done the marketing yourself through the following that you have built up. Also evident in the 6.4K followers you have here already in the blink of an eye. I’m sure many of us preordered expecting more of our appreciation to reach you as direct funds. Disappointed to hear that even the avoiding Amazon routes don’t give you much more. Is there a way to ask you a question in private here or would you need to follow me at the other place?
Show threadPhilNov 10, 2022
@RussInCheshire have you any experience of Unbound? It seems like a Kickstarter for books. I've chipped in on one from the Byline Times bunch and it was a perfectly fine experience.
Likewise I funded a book on Kickstarter and it was a pain-free smooth experience.
Show threadRussInCheshireNov 10, 2022
@Phil_C That's my publisher 😊
Show threadRabi ThapaNov 12, 2022
@RussInCheshire totally agree after two underwhelming experiences with a big name publisher (penguin India) and a hotshot indie. Unless you bag a prize, they won't do anything for you.