one thing I think that might be lost on newcomers is the fact that this past week has been BANANAS for everyone who's been on the site for years, and if you feel like people are being snippy or pushy about social norms, that's probably why.

on a normal week when people talk about "hey please CW that" or "please don't spam your tweets here with a crossposter" or whatever they're more likely to do so patiently and explain the reasoning behind why we do things that way but on a day like today things are more likely to get a little snippy or terse.

don't take it personally! the old timers are trying to maintain social norms in the face of a flood of change, and they're worn out. keep that in mind if you think to yourself "hm; this place doesn't seem that friendly". give it some time to get back to normal before you bounce.

@technomancy why don't people like crossposters?

@MrsMouse

first of all many of them just don't work very well; often they will port over one half of a conversation or try to bring over a feature like QTs that just don't exist here.

secondly social norms are just different on fedi; stuff that comes from twitter won't have CWs or good image descriptions or sensitive images marked as such.

third is that they give off Bot Vibes; you can tell an account isn't really a person, the person is somewhere else. usually this makes it feel like they're not actually interested in having a conversation, which is what the rest of us are here for.

overall it's just awkward and jarring.

(note that crossposting in the other direction is fine and encouraged)

@technomancy ok :) Thnks for answering in such detail!
@MrsMouse the short version is funnier: https://icosahedron.website/@technomancy/109246655790063293 but less informative
tech? no! man, see... (@[email protected])

a tip for the newcomers: I know it may be tempting but please don't open a portal to the Torment Nexus people use this site to get away from its incessant howling and screeching, and so intentionally creating a containment breach kind of defeats the whole point thanks

Icosahedron
@technomancy @MrsMouse Also, based on the replies, people had no idea what you were talking about. :-(
@technomancy @MrsMouse Oh cripes, I set one up last night as a way to keep a presence on twitter for mostly professional reasons. That said I obviously did it wrong because my toots aren't showing up on twitter and my tweets aren't showing up here.
@LizEllisPhD there are also services that let you follow twitter accounts on the fediverse

@technomancy

I mostly agree with you, with one exception.

I have several bots running on my instance that forward the content of some Twitter profiles to the fedi, and I even wrote an article on how to code a cross-post bot https://blog.platypush.tech/article/Create-a-Mastodon-bot-to-forward-Twitter-and-RSS-feeds-to-your-timeline

I created them for profiles like e.g. The Economist, Scientific American, IEEE, Quanta Magazine etc. that most likely won't join the fedi any time soon.

I agree that one shouldn't cross-post their own tweets, because that splits the conversation and creates that awkward "bot feeling" that you want to avoid in a social network.

But I actually think that it's a good thing when you are bringing to the fedi a conversation that was never supposed to be here in the first place, because the original author is e.g. a publication or a political figure that is not on the Fediverse in the first place.

The alternative is to follow @<handle>@beta.birdsite.live accounts to bridge Twitter profiles to the fedi, but those guys' servers are lately quite overwhelmed by the number of "on-the-fly" bots that they have to maintain. So it's much better if more people can run their own bot services.

My Economist bot, for instance, has >1K followers. People often re-share to their followers and comment some of the articles it cross-posts here, and start a discussion that may have never happened otherwise.

Granted, the original publisher may not see these comments, but in most of the cases those publications or political figures don't reply directly to them even on Twitter šŸ˜†

And, it goes without a say, if Scientific American or Quanta decide to open a Mastodon account tomorrow, then I'd be happy to take down my bots, as they would obviously be redundant.

@MrsMouse

@blacklight @MrsMouse oh yeah I have no problem with bots that are clearly marked as such and are not pretending to be a person
@technomancy I just had to unfollow someone whose toots were mostly RTs from the bird site with no CW (I moved here to stop seeing that stuff!).
@seancorfield I think part of it is worse because like ... when you see that, you know that person isn't going to have a good time on fedi if they keep doing that! so there's like ... an urge to say something, even if just for their own sake. but saying something in a way that's likely to be well-received is kind of exhausting

@technomancy @seancorfield I have taken to showing, not telling.

If I want to boost an image, I add a post with CW image description below it and describe the image.

Very often, this is enough for people to get the hint, and some of them will then ask how to do it if they need help. This makes my explanation more well-received, because it is wanted and not perceived as mansplaining.

@technomancy given the growth I think it is amazing how welcoming people have been to newbies like myself.
Much appreciated!

@technomancy this place has a long way to fall before it has the kind of bad ambient feelings from the old place.

I think I started out on the old path of wishing i could kind of stitch the new place onto the place where I'm already established.

I'm still very new here in terms of hours spent, but I think something basic changed when I stopped thinking the old place was the foundation to build on.

@technomancy I keep thinking that fedi people might look back on this as our Eternal September--a time when the rapid influx of new users overwhelmed acculturation processes.

Which, I dunno, may be a welcome change in some ways--fedi culture is this weird mix of anarchic "a cool crime is to blow up a corporate headquarters" with hyperconservative "human faces are too stressful to see and should have a content warning on them". Some more Normal People (TM) might do us good?

@aphyr @technomancy I really don't see how that's a "weird mix" at all. The difference is that this place much more strongly centers around queer, neurodiverse, disabled etc. folks than Twitter does - and that's where that culture comes from. I don't see any reason why that would need to be "balanced out" (ie. demarginalized).

@joepie91 Speaking as like... an ADHD gay boy with chronic fatigue who's been here since 2017: it's weird! It's extremely weird here! I generally like it, but there is a yawning chasm between how people on fedi act and, like, basically any real-world conversation *in our marginal groups*.

Just this morning a queer pal looked into joining fedi and noped out because he saw people insisting that a line drawing of a person not making eye contact should be CW: eye contact. We look *nuts* sometimes.

@aphyr I'm sure that some people have some incompatible expectations at times, but that's really nothing different from any interpersonal disagreements in any community - and I've absolutely been in IRL spaces that were culturally not far removed from what I see here on fedi.

I certainly don't see "actively bring in more of the culture that consistently and sometimes violently suppresses atypical identities" as the solution to that; if anything, I would expect it to make it *worse*, because it does not tolerate weirdness.

And it's very odd to me to call eye-contact CWs a "hyper-conservative" thing - it's the exact opposite, it's about being mindful of other people's comforts and not just your own. That is not what conservatism does.

If there's a disagreement over community rules, fine. Discuss it, figure it out, resolve the conflict into something that everybody involved can live with. But don't blame it on the weirdness. Baby, bathwater, etc.

@aphyr @technomancy The Eternal September is what this all puts me in mind of too. It makes me very conscious of how I post and that there is a culture to look for, in the spirit of curiosity and honouring, and to integrate into. I want to participate without being part of an emergent wrecking ball!
@aphyr @technomancy lmao hit the nail on the head. Molotov cocktail in bio, "uwu please CW anything with the colors red or blue within 2 months of the election"
@technomancy Is there a good summary of what is decent behavior here somewhere?

@FlyingSaucer good question!

I haven't read thru it all the way but I have seen a number of folks recommend https://github.com/joyeusenoelle/GuideToMastodon/ which has some sections on culture and etiquette you might find useful

the main thing I disagree with from that guide is that it recommends mastodon.social; nowadays I strongly recommend moving to a smaller instance once you find your sea legs; that one has so many signups that the moderators are overwhelmed, which has caused many other servers to block them

GitHub - joyeusenoelle/GuideToMastodon: An increasingly less-brief guide to Mastodon

An increasingly less-brief guide to Mastodon. Contribute to joyeusenoelle/GuideToMastodon development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
@technomancy thank you this was very helpful.

@FlyingSaucer @technomancy I'll give you a short list.

Don'ts:

  • Don't be an asshole
  • Don't be racist
  • Don't be sexist
  • Don't be homophobic
  • Don't be transphobic (including the famous "I'm not against trans people BUT..." No. Just no.)
  • Don't be fatphobic, ableist, don't do victim blaming, etc.
  • Don't be a nazi. No hate speech, no slurs, no conspiracy theories about minorities erasing white Americans or something.
  • Don't be a reply guy. While it's not a bannable offense, that guarantees people will mute or block you pretty fast.

Dos:

  • Use content warnings liberally. When in doubt, use them. Nobody will complain for using to many of those (unless they're an asshole).
  • Try to add descriptions for images. If it's a screenshot and you're too lazy to type in all that, add a CW for image without description.
  • Try to respect others.
  • Have fun!
@technomancy I have absolutely zero knowledge and experience with this platform. I haven't experienced any snippy-ness yet, but I've been mainly just reading posts, responding, and boosting.
@technomancy by and large the community has been welcoming. And I can’t thank everyone enough for that 😊
@technomancy That honestly makes a lot of sense. The new influx of people (myself included) is massive from my understanding

@technomancy

I feel like the main difference that I've enjoyed since the first push to fedi months ago was the glaring difference that people aren't ready to assume the worst of everyone from the get go. I really like that people aren't ready to want to find a reason to argue about something you said at the drop of a hat.

No thanks.I want to actually make friends. I want new reasons to be joyful, not just constantly upset at the same old things (that seemingly are around forever)

@technomancy
Is this mastodon's Eternal September? šŸ¤”
@TheIncredibleSquirrel @technomancy @pixel Fedi's Eternal September was in 2016 when Mastodon joined and it stopped being a federated free social network mostly for discussing what federated free social networks should be like.
@technomancy Is cross-posting really that frowned upon? Even in a transitional phase?
(Trying to learn!)

@darmato if it's coming from twitter then yes, see my reply here: https://icosahedron.website/@technomancy/109289045539139574

outgoing crossposting on the other hand, sure, go for it, as long as you don't crosspost boosts, because other people don't want their stuff exported

@technomancy Okay, for me crossposting in the other direction would be functionally the same thing, so I'll just do that. (Not talking about every post in ongoing conversations, just the initial posts. Actually might be interesting to see how ensuing conversations differ between the two platforms!)
yes, cross-posting from hellbird to here is very undesirable. it would bring hellbird toxicity here. we really don't want that. this is not hell, and we don't want it to become hell.
by cross-posting to here, you wouldn't be experiencing our communities, standards, etiquette... cross-posting would be just forcing hellbird onto us. pretty please don't with sugar on top ;-)
thanks! and welcome! :-)
#TwitterMigration
@technomancy This is a great thread (wait, do we call it a thread?!). Very helpful for us newbies! Folks, the GitHub article is worth your time!
@MelKolsch @technomancy you can write much longer posts here. There fewer threads do to that!
@technomancy thanks for the context and the welcome. :)

@technomancy Must have felt like eternal september felt like in 1993 for Usenet users.

Call this eternal november

@technomancy Thank you for the explanation. I just want to say that as a newcomer I've enjoyed this space immensely because it's been so refreshingly nontoxic. It is a breath of fresh air, and I hope it remains so.
@technomancy context like this is useful, thank you! I’d hope that the majority of the influx will be power users from Twitter who micght well be faster to pick up these things, and with a keen eye on the flaws of the platform that they’ve just come from.
@ThisMonkeyTypes @technomancy I’m pretty sure that it’s mostly power users of the #BirdApp who are flooding in
@technomancy no. I hope they go away. Nobody wants them. They can go elsewhere and build their echo chamber
@technomancy
yes, a flood of tourists. I'm looking to settle and observe the norms but you know - humans
@technomancy haven’t had any of that- that said, I’ve limited my posts and replies and spent far more time ā€œobservingā€ admit, I’m still likely to favorite a post- It’s my way of saying - Hi! I see you.
@technomancy Mastodon's Eternal September has begun.
@technomancy This is nothing: wait 'til TFG gets back on the bird site. That's when #Twexit becomes the deluge.
@technomancy it’s September on Usenet. I’m sorry.
@technomancy We hope at least *this* "September" won't be "Eternal"?
@technomancy It goes both ways tho- everyone migrating here is also v annoyed by how absolutely unintuitive the UI/UX of this product is & the technical prowess you need is a bit much for people who didn't find their job through angelist