The mining of the “Saucy” and the “Firefly”: the thread about the WW2 loss of forty-two lives in the Forth

I was looking for something in Seafield Cemetery last week and couldn’t help but stop by the war graves. Some are for merchant seamen and many of them were from HMS Saucy, lost with all hands on this day (September 4th) in 1940. As yesterday was Merchant Navy Day, this is a doubly appropriate time to relate their story.

The Saucy was built for the Royal Navy in Hull in 1918 as a 600-ton, 155ft-long Frisky-class rescue tug. She was sold out of service in 1924 but kept her name and was requisitioned in 1939, returning to the UK from Shanghai. She was crewed by merchant seamen, serving under officers of the Royal Navy Reserve (RNR men were professional merchant naval officers who had joined the reserves to be called up in times of war).

HMS Saucy, pre-1924 postcard image

Saucy was based on the Forth at Rosyth, her duties to assist in any damaged vessels entering the estuary and was at sea on September 3rd (Merchant Navy Day and exactly 1 year into the war) when she brought in a damaged Dutch merchant ship that had been bombed by German aircraft. With this charge safely brought in, she headed back out on patrol in the early morning of the 4th. Contact was soon lost with her when she was in a position about 1.5 miles west of the island of Inchkeith; the unfortunate tug had hit a mine and gone down almost instantly, taking all 281 on board with her. It is not clear whose mine she had struck, it may have been dropped by a German aircraft, but just as likely it may have been a “friendly” mine that had broken free from its moorings and had floated further into the Firth.

“The Sea Mine”, Louis Raemaekers, 1916 © Edinburgh City Libraries

Of the crew the 3 officers were all RNR men and the 25 ratings were all merchant seamen. Eighteen came from the Devonshire fishing town of Brixham, 7 from the same extended family. Eight bodies were recovered, 5 of them of Brixham men and all were buried at Seafield – although one was never formally identified.

Sub. Lt. Francis Douglas Phillips (age 36), Fireman Cyril Harvey (age 20), and Fireman Samuel Piper (age 26)Sailor Charles Launder (age 36)Sailor Harry Nicholls (aged 30) and Sailor Thomas Lovell (aged 53)Sub Lt. David Llewellyn Thomas, age 29 and an unknown sailor from HMS Saucy

On this day in 2004, a memorial plaque was dedicated in Brixham Harbour to the men who were lost – it has 26 individual names, however different sources list 27 names and some say there were 28 on the ship’s roll. See footnote.

HMS Saucy memorial at Brixham, from War Memorials Online

A new HMS Saucy was named in her honour in 1942, an Assurance-class rescue tug. The wreck of her predecessor was marked with a buoy in 1940, but it was largely lost by 1945. Sonar surveys by the Navy in 1967 and 1871 failed to locate it, but it was found again by the minehunter HMS Sandown in 1992, and her divers explored the wreck in 1993 and found it to be remarkably intact in 15m of water, position 56° 2′ 10″N, 3° 10′ 33″W.

HMS Saucy (the 1942 replacement), on the Humber in February 1943 © IWM FL 8980

The men whose bodies were never found are further commemorated on the Liverpool Naval Memorial, which commemorates almost 1,400 merchant sailors who died serving with the Royal Navy during WW2 and have no known resting place.

  • Some sources say 26 or 27 were on the ship’s roll. Most also 7 seven men were buried at Seafield, however there is the grave of an 8th and unidentified victim also alongside. ↩︎
  • Alongside the men from the Saucy at Seafield lie three others who lost their lives to sea mines that year; Lt. D. B. Johnstone RNVR, Chief Petty Officer C. E. Baldwin RN D.S.M. and Sub Lt. C. Dobson RNVR. All three died on HMS Firefly in February 1940. Baldwin had earned the Distinguished Service Medal early in the war for being the first to defuse a German magnetic mine, allowing it to be captured, inspected and countermeasures devised.

    Sub Lt. Carl Dobson RNVR, age 29Lt. David Johnstone RNVR, age 37 and CPO Charles Baldwin RN, age 40

    Firefly was a requisitioned civilian trawler, hired from her owners as a minesweeper. Trawlers were perfect for this sort of work, which required a seaworthy vessel that could handle the towing of “sweeps” that cut mines free from their moorings before the crew destroyed them (usually by shooting it with a rifle until it exploded).

    Oil painting of HMS Firefly by H. Trythall, Victoria BC, 1991

    On February 3rd 1940, Firefly was in the Forth, her crew attempting to defuse a British mine that had gotten loose and was posing a hazard to shipping. These sort of mines look exactly like they do in cartoons; a buoyant, black sphere with spiky “horns” in which the detonators are mounted.

    “Deadly Instruments of Modern Naval Fighting”, London Illustrated News, August 1914

    Firefly was stopped in the water, her crew watching from the railings while a detachment in the row boat carefully manoeuvred alongside the mine to defuse it; dangerous but routine work. Without warning they were hit by the wake of a passing destroyer, which pushed the mine onto the boat. The horn contacted one of the boat’s oars, and 200-250lb of explosives was detonated. Everyone on the boat was killed instantly, as were all except one watching on deck (who would die the next day from his wounds). Only the 3 men in the wheelhouse and 1 in the galley survived from a crew of 18. Sadly one of the four survivors, Lt. Andrew Macgavin Maclean RNVR, would die in the Royal Infirmary two weeks later as a result of infection, he was laid to rest in Strathblane Parish Churchyard (I am indebted to Pat Davy of Strathblane Heritage Society for this information).

    Remarkably, the vessel herself was largely intact – apart from damage to her superstructure – and she was towed into Leith by the minesweeping trawler HMS Wardour and repaired. She returned to service, recommissioning in June 1940, and serving out the rest of the war. Returned to her owners and renamed St. Just, she fished out of Harwich until 1961. Wardour herself was sunk by a mine she was clearing in October 1940 but her crew survived. In a curious coincidence, a previous HMS Firefly was one of the first ships to strike a naval mine (which at the time were referred to as “Infernal Machines”) when she and HMS Merlin ran into a Russian minefield off Sveaborg in the Baltic Campaign of 1855, although both survived. In another odd twist of fate, the Firth of Forth was the location of both the first loss of a ship to a torpedo in WW1 (the cruiser HMS Pathfinder), and the last such in WW2 (the Canadian steamer Avondale Park and the Norwegian collier “Sneland I).

    “Merlin and Firefly Struck by Infernal Machines” Name, Rank & Resting PlaceName, Rank & Resting PlaceSub Lt. Walter AndersonSub Lt. Frederick JonesSub Lt. Francis Douglas Phillips (Seafield)Sub Lt. David Thomas (Seafield)Third Engineer Edward Pulham*Fireman John Clift*Sailor Thomas Coysh*Sailor Seymour Crang*Sailor William Cudd*Sailor Sidney Foster*Fireman Stanley Gardner*Fireman Cyril Harvey* (Seafield)Donkeyman Leonard Harvey*Fireman Roy Harvey*Sailor Charles Launder* (Seafield)Sailor Vincent Medway*Sailor Thomas Lovell* (Seafield)Sailor Samuel Piper* (Seafield)Sailor Harry Nicholls* (Seafield)Fireman Charles Roberts*Fireman Ralph Stamp*Fireman John Seaward*Sailor George HosieFireman Donald McGregor ReidSteward Donald ReidSailor Robert TomlinsonCook John StenhouseOfficers and men of HMS Saucy, lost in September 1940, asterisked names were men from BrixhamName, Rank & Resting PlaceName, Rank & Resting PlaceLt. David B. Johnstone (Seafield)Lt. Andrew Macgavin Maclean (Strathblane)Sub Lt. Norman Peat (Glasgow)Sub Lt. Geoffrey Vaughan (Bournemouth)Sub Lt. Carl Dobson (Seafield)CPO Charles Baldwin (Seafield)Engineman Benjamin Barker (Hartlepool)Seaman Henry Beavers (Preston)Second Hand John Cowie (Buckie)Seaman John Clay (Preston)Seaman Cook Walter Johnson (Great Yarmouth)Seaman Peter Reid (Buckie)Seaman Alexander Stewart (Buckie)Seaman James Stewart (Lossiemouth)Second Hand Edward Barker (Cleethorpes)Officers and men of HMS Firefly, lost in February 1940

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    The thread about the Calton Hill Naval Telegraph and the Forth coast’s Napoleonic communication system

    Edinburgh’s City Art Centre shared this wonderful 1797 painting by George Walker this morning (July 11th 2023), showing the east of the old city as viewed from the vicinity of St. Anthony’s Chapel in Holyrood Park. This was an extremely popular viewpoint for 18th and 19th century artists and there are any numbers of etchings, watercolours and prints of this vista, making it a good record of the changes in the city over this time period.

    “Edinburgh from the South East”, George Walker, 1797. City of Edinburgh Council Museums & Galleries

    This image of course poses the question: “what on earth is that enormous mast on the Calton Hill?!

    Well then, what on earth is that enormous mast on the Calton Hill? The answer is that this was a telegraph. No, not an electric or wireless telegraph, but a naval flagstaff for communication with ships in Leith Roads during the period of the French Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars of the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The word telegraph of course long predates more modern uses and literally means “writing from a distance” and that’s exactly what a systems such as this could do; as and when daylight and the ambient visibility allowed, the mast could communicate by coded messages transmitted by hoisting various combinations of flags and marker balls up the staff.

    The telegraph pole is clearly marked on John Ainslie’s 1804 map of the City:

    Ainslie’s 1804 Town Plan, centred on Calton Hill. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    And we can also very clearly see it in an advertising print for one of Robert Barker’s panoramas from 1806 that was exhibited in Leicester Square in London. His first panorama of this view, from 1792, does not show the mast in place.

    The Calton Hill Signal Mast, on “A View of Edinburgh. An advertisement for Robert Barker’s Panorama exhibited at Leicester Square” by Henry Aston Barker, 1806. National Galleries Scotland

    An earlier print – also in the collection of the city – shows a similar scene to that of George Walker’s painting, however as the Bridewell – Robert Adam’s prison on the lower slopes of the Calton Hill – is missing from this scene it suggests that this is prior to 1795 and therefore that the mast pre-dates the installation of the Admiralty’s signal telegraph chain. The mast is absent in a plan of the city by James Watson and Thomas Brown dated 1793, suggesting it was erected between those dates. A chain of very similar telegraphs had been installed around the Channel Islands in 1792.

    A view of the Calton Hill from the South East. Unknown artist, c. 1795 Edinburgh City Libraries

    This Calton Hill signal post was at the western end of a telegraph chain that stretched between Edinburgh and St. Abbs Head, to forewarn of any French incursions into the Firth of Forth (bear in mind that in 1779, a small American squadron under John Paul Jones had tried just that) and allow the reporting of shipping traffic in and out of the Forth back to the Admiralty in Leith (formally the Commander-in-Chief at Leith and on the Coast of Scotland) . Interception and boarding parties could then be sent out to any unexpected or unknown vessels. This signal chain was apparently constructed in 1801, so would have been an addition to the pre-existing Calton Hill flagstaff. It is likely that the mast was first erected for communicating with ships anchored in the Leith Roads out in the Forth, at this time an important forming-up point for naval convoys.

    With thanks to Chris Wright for his assistance in finding a copy of the relevant paper, I have plotted the Forth & East Coast flag telegraph chain onto a map (below). The 8 stations spanned 41 miles of coast from St. Abb’s Head in the east to Calton Hill in the west, for the Admiralty HQ in Leith. Messages that would otherwise take the best part of a day to carry could be transmitted (weather dependent) to and from Edinburgh and Leith in a matter of minutes.

    Forth & East Coast telepgraph chain, plotted onto a modern aerial map, after Frank Kitchen, 1990.

    Each station was manned by a lieutenant on half pay, a petty officer or midshipman plus as his deputy and two men. All to have been classed as “unfit for sea service”, meaning they were too old, young, or injured. The structures were hastily constructed and temporary, built largely from timber with canvas for roofing and little remains apart from perimeter walls to keep the sheep out or some levelled platforms for the signal staff and support guys. The wooden huts were painted with a mix of tar, ochre and sand. Life must have been dull, cold and uncomfortable.

    For communication purposes, each telegraph was provided with 1 x large red signal flag (18 breadths x 7 yards size), 1 x large blue pennant (5 breaths x 50 yards size) and 4 x hollow canvas signalling balls, painted black (43″ diameter). A system of coded signals used combinations of the red flag, blue pennant and a certain number of balls. For instance the blue pennant plus 3 balls = “Enemy landing to the west“. The below diagram for the Port of Leith flag signals in the 1860s, shows how with just 3 flags and 2 balls, it was possible to unambiguously communicate the numbers 10 – 26 (and the halves in-between). Now make those depth numbers signals in a code book, and you’ve got yourself a telegraphic communication system.

    Leith Harbour tidal depth flag signals. Scan from a booklet in the possession of Threadinburgh. © Self

    Each station was provided with an inventory that included:

    • 163 yards of roofing canvas
    • A 30 foot flagstaff
    • A 50 foot topmast for the staff
    • 100 fathoms of 1.5 inch and 77 fathoms of 2.5 inch rope
    • officer’s bath stove
    • fire grate for the men’s quarters
    • 6 chairs, 2 tables

    Four chaldrons of coal (about 5.25 m3), £3 of candles and £1 of stationary were allowed per annum. It wasn’t until 1803 that the Admiralty made an allowance for 1 x cot bed (for the officer) and 3 x hammocks (for the men), and only upon written application. I have also inferred that the officer may not have lived permanently on site as he was given a travel allowance. The illustrations below, made by Royal Engineer Captain William Smith, show the telegraph station at Malin Head in Ireland in 1804. The flagstaffs and cabins would have been similar on the East Coast of Scotland.

    Malin Head signal station, CC-by-SA 1.0 Trinity College DublinMalin Head signal station, CC-by-SA 1.0 Trinity College Dublin

    Exceptions exist however. The stations at St. Abbs, Dowlaw and North Berwick seem to have been more substantially built from the local stone, perhaps due to their isolation or exposure? Good remains of the stone buildings remain on North Berwick Law above the town.

    The remains of the North Berwick Law telegraph station hut. Canmore photograph.

    In case there was any doubt it was a military structure, rather than a shepherd’s bothy, one of the stones has been neatly inscribed with the cipher “G. R.”

    G. R. inscription on North Berwick law remains. Canmore photograph

    And a section of flag staff (quite remarkably, if it’s original) remained in situ during the archaeological site survey in 2018!

    Apparent flagstaff remains on North Berwick Law. Canmore photograph

    I can find almost no mentions of the East Coast telegraph being used in the newspapers. The earliest is in the London Oracle on 26th October 1798, which records a scare that French warships were in the Forth when two friendly Russian warships did not give the correct signals and in consequence “the signal post on the Calton Hill was at work most part of the day“. A decade later in 1808 the Caledonian Mercury reported that the St. Abb’s Head station sent a message to Edinburgh that the damaged merchant ship Cygnet had drifted inshore there. An 1802 aquatint shows that the mast was still in place at that time:

    Edinburgh from the East, 1802 aquatint from “A Journey from Edinburgh through Parts of North Britain.” by Alexander Campbell

    Plans of the city include it up to 1809, but construction of the Nelson Monument from 1807 onwards soon made the flagstaff surplus to requirements – however the below illustration below by John Harden clearly shows the Monument in place where the flagstaff once stood but also shows the flagstaff standing to the east of it. This suggests that the staff was moved to an alternative location while the monument was still under construction.

    Edinburgh from St Anthony’s Chapel, John Harden, early 19th century as the Nelson Monument is in place. Credit, National Galleries of Scotland

    The Monument was designed to effectively be a 160 foot tall flagstaff in its own right, to act as a signal station, with accommodation for the signallers, the officer in the tower itself and four injured seamen pensioners in the building at its base. It was intended that the duties of the occupants would include hoisting news of British naval victories and celebrating past triumphs on their anniversaries. For the latter purposes, flags bearing the names of these events were to have been provided.

    R. Scott engraving, 1809, “The monument to the memory of Lord Nelson erected on the Calton Hill Edinburgh”. Edinburgh City Libraries

    The design of the monument by Robert Burn is said to be inspired by Nelson’s folding telescope. You have to admit that it was a big improvement on the obelisk style from an earlier draft by Alexander Nasmyth that had been rejected as too expensive.

    Alexander Nasmyth, 1805. “To his Royal Highness George Prince of Wales this engraving of the monument intended to be erected on the Calton Hill, Edinburgh”. Edinburgh City Libraries

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    #Lochend #Logan #Restalrig #StMargaret

    Which is it? The thread about the name of Wardie Bay; or the thread about the name of Granton Beach?

    This thread was originally written and published in July 2023.

    Wardie Bay; an increasingly popular little spot of accessible coastline in the north of Edinburgh, where you can dip your toes – or your whole body – in the “bracing” waters of the Forth, and watch the seals and seabirds. Or is it Granton Beach? Let’s see if we can’t find out.

    “Beach at Wardie Bay and Granton Harbour”, cc-by-SA 2.0 Jim Barton via Geograph

    First we must get something straight, whatever this bay and beach is called, it is not a natural bay, it is man made. The sandy beach itself extends all of 150m eastwards from the Granton Eastern Breakwater (construction of which was not completed until about 1860) and the wider bay itself is bookended to the east by the Western Breakwater of Leith Docks, some 1,350m distant (constructed between 1938 and 1942).

    OS 1:10,000 sheet for Edinburgh, published 1955, with Granton Harbour to the left and Newhaven / Leith Docks to the right. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    Surveying undertaken by the eminent engineers Robert and Alan (his son) Stevenson in the 1830s when planning Granton Harbour shows that at this time, there was no sandy beach at Wardie, it was only rock and gravel (there was, however, sand to the west of where the pier is marked below).

    “Granton – Plan and section of a wharf on the Ox Craig” by Robert and Alan Stevenson, 1835. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    Once we accept this, it means we don’t need to look for a name for this bay that is older than that, because it didn’t exist, it was just the shoreline of the Firth of Forth.

    Robert Kirkwood’s 1817 Town Plan of Edinburgh and Leith, centred on Wardie. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    Our two competing names for the bay come from the estates and big houses of Granton and Wardie.

    • Granton as a placename goes back to 1478 and a “castle” or tower house existed here. The estate was later split into two farmsteads (Easter Granton (or Royston) and Wester Granton). Under the ownership of Andrew Logan, the castle was replaced by a mansion house, which was called Royston House. This was rebuilt at the end of the 17th centurty by George Mackenzie and in 1739 was purchased by John Campbell, Duke of Argyll, who renamed it Carolina Park after his daughter and had it extended by William Adam. At the end of the 18th century the house was inherited by the Duke of Buccleuch.
    • Wardie as a placename is first recorded over 100 years earlier than Granton, in 1336, with various spellings over time such as Warda and Weirdie. The flat plane of land in this area above the shoreline of the Forth back to the Water of Leith was known as Wardie Muir (moor). A castle of this name was built in the 15th or 16th century, which over time evolved into Wardie House. At the end of the 18th century, Wardie House was in the possession of Alexander Boswell (or Boswall) of Blackadder, in Berwickshire. When he died in 1812, he left Wardie to a distant relative, Captain John Donaldson, RN, whose inheritance required he take up the Boswall name.

    Granton and Wardie also gave (and still give) their name to the two most prominent intertidal rocks on their respective foreshores, Granton Bush and Wardie Bush.

    “Chart of the Firth of Forth from Queensferry to Inchkeith” by Robert and Alan Stevenson, 1835. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    The boundary between the estates of Granton and Wardie was the rivulet of the Wardie Burn; west of the burn lies Granton, east of it lies Wardie. This also formed the old parish boundary between St. Cuthberts and Cramond. To the east of Wardie, on a boundary defined by what is now Netherby Road, lay the ancient lands of Trinity – part of North Leith parish and so-called because they belonged to Trinity House in Leith. The land ownership plan below was drawn up by Robert Stevenson on behalf of the Duke of Buccleuch in 1836 as part of the harbour scheme, which included a significant new access road to and from Edinburgh (marked red below) that spanned the Wardie Burn and crossed the land of Captain Boswall of Wardie. Interestingly, Stevenson’s first plans for Granton had a much grander pier, wet docks and this roadway was proposed as a railway.

    Robert & Alan Stevenson’s “Plan & Section of the road from Granton Pier”, 1836. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    The below map overlays the boundaries of the old Granton, Wardie and Barnton estates on a modern aerial photo. We can see that the boundary between Granton and Wardie, the old line of the Wardie Burn, is approximately in the middle of the current beach, with probably the lion’s share in Granton.

    Modern aerial mapping with the boundaries of Granton, Barnton and Wardie overlaid

    From an administrative point of view, when the Great Reform Act passed in 1832, it defined new parliamentary constituencies. One was created for the Burgh of Leith, which cut through the middle of the Wardie estate, in a straight line between where the Wardie Burn entered the sea and Ferry Road, 400 yards west of Golden Acre. To the west of this, Granton was in Edinburghshire, and to the south of this was the constituency the Burgh of Edinburgh.

    1832 Map of Edinburgh and Leith, to accompany the definition of the constituency boundaries as part of the Reform Act. To the left of the red line is Edinburghshire, to the east of it, the northern part is Leith Burgh and the southern part is Edinburgh Burgh. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    The following year, Leith was made a municipal Burgh, and the boundary was pushed 100 feet further west from Granton Road than the parliamentary boundary. Although it still ran through the middle of the old Wardie estate (which was progressively being parcelled up and built on), this now meant that almost the entirety of the foreshore at what would later become Wardie Bay beach was then in Leith’s jurisdiction.

    Bartholomew Post Office map, 1865, showing the municipal boundary (red) between Leith’s 5th Ward (green) and Edinburgh’s 2nd and 3rd Wards (pink and yellow). Granton at this time was in neither burgh, but was in the shire of Midlothian for administrative purposes. Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland

    The Edinburgh Municipal Act of 1900 incorporated Granton into Edinburgh (into the No. 8 St. Bernard’s Ward), with the boundary remaining 100 feet west of Granton Road. When the Edinburgh Extension Act of 1920 passed and Edinburgh consumed Leith, the ward boundaries remained the same in Leith, and the old No. 5 North Leith Ward became Edinburgh’s new No. 19 West Leith Ward. Wardie Bay may now have formally been within Edinburgh, but it was still in a Leith ward (as it remained until incorporated into a new shoreline ward called Forth in 2007 when the city moved to a smaller number of larger, multi-member wards).

    In news print, Granton Beach appears over a decade before Wardie Bay, but it’s not easy to tell what part of the foreshore this was referring to. Granton Bay never has been used, and Wardie Beach is used earlier on (1837) but only as a one off, and not in a local publication. Wardie Bay is cetainly the name used by the author Joyce Wallace, who wrote a number of excellent books on Edinburgh and Leith local history in the 1990s, including Traditions of Leith and Trinity and Further Traditions of Leith and Trinity.

    Place NameEarliest Newspaper MentionMentions 1900-1999Granton Beach1887, The Scotsman, with reference to Duck Shooting on the beach12Granton BayNo mention–Granton Shore1848, Caledonian Mercury, with reference to a storm19Wardie Beach1837, The Globe (London), with reference to the geology on the beach–Wardie Bay1901, Dundee Evening Telegraph, with reference to a storm136Wardie Shore1824, Caledonian Mercury, with reference to the feuing of building lots at Wardie1The first appearance of different place names for “Wardie Bay” in searches for the above terms on the British Newspaper Archive

    In 1901 there was a great tragedy at Wardie Bay when the Revenue Cutter Active was driven against the Granton Breakwater in a storm with the loss of 20 of the 23 souls on board. This was widely reported in newspapers across Scotland and the UK, and Wardie Bay was the name used.

    In 1987, there was a scheme put forward by Forth Ports, the harbour and navigation authority for the Firth of Forth, to infill the shoreline between the Granton and Leith harbour breakwaters, and the name Wardie Bay was used. You can read more about this ridiculous proposal over on its own thread.

    This has all been a very long-winded way to say that I think, on the balance of probabilites, if I was asked to adjudicate on whether it is Wardie Bay or Granton Beach, I would say it is Wardie Bay.

    • It is an accepted term in print by local authors, and the most commonly used term in local newspapers
    • The most prominent intertidal feature on the beach is Wardie BushGranton Bush is a mile to the west
    • While the older estate boundaries put much of what is now the beach on the Granton side, the beach and bay have only come into existence as we known them since 1860, by which time the estates were being broken up by feuing, and a new municipal boundary had been set which put almost all of the beach east of the breakwater on the Wardie side.

    However, there is really no right or wrong answer here. No authority has ever decreed an official name. The bay itself is a local feature, it’s not defined or recognised on Ordnance Survey maps or marine charts. So you go ahead and call it what you think is best, and don’t let anyone (especially me) tell you otherwise.

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    #Lochend #Logan #Restalrig #StMargaret

    The thread about the Forth Dam megaproject; why bridge the Firth when you can block it?

    Here’s one for you that I bet you’ve probably never heard of: did you know that in 1928 there was a proposal to cross the Firth of Forth by building a dam across it? This will be a short thread, by nature of the dearth of information available, but hopefully a useful record of this bold initiative.

    Forth Bridge from above [South] Queensferry. James Valentine postcard, 1890. © Edinburgh City Libraries

    The scheme was the brainchild of Matthew Steele, a Bo’ness-born architect whose work focused on retail and housing, first in an Arts & Crafts and later in the Moderne style, and includes the Hippodrome cinema. In this endeavour he was joined by fellow Bo’nessite John Jeffrey; hotelier and burgh councillor.

    Bo’ness Hioppodrome cinema, by Matthew Steele (top left). Picture via Visit Scotland website.

    This was a time before the Kincardine swing bridge was built (not completed until 1936) and there was much public debate about the best manner and location for a road vehicle crossing of the Forth downstream of Stirling. The Firth had of course been crossed way back in the 1890s by the rail bridge.

    The Kincardine Bridge, © Copyright James Allan, CC-by-SA 2.0 via Geograph

    Jeffrey and Steele’s proposal was to throw a 7,300 foot long barrage (1.3 miles, 2.2km) across the Firth and lay a roadway along the top of it for vehicular traffic. It would run from just west of Port Edgar on the south shore to a point a quarter of a mile to the west of North Queensferry. You’ll be as totally thrilled as I was to find it to know that there’s a sketch plan!

    “The Proposed Forth Dam”, Edinburgh Evening News – Monday 15 December 1930

    You’ll notice that the project wasn’t just a dam: in order to maintain navigation along the Forth it was planned to cut a 2,500ft (762m) long channel between Inverkeithing harbour and St. Margaret’s Bay, complete with locks on the scale of the Panama Canal. This latter point was critical as Rosyth was the principal dockyard in Scotland of the Royal Navy’s Home Fleet and was on the upstream side of the dam. The channel would have to be allow passage by the fleet’s largest battleships such as HMS Hood, the 47,000 ton, 860ft long pride of the nation.

    HMS Hood in the Panama Canal locks, 1924

    It was Steele’s contention that by building the foundations of the dam to the west of the Beamer Rock (where the modern Queensferry Crossing finds its footings) it would be easier and cheaper than forming the base for bridge piers. The promoters put forward a number of claimed benefits for their dam:

  • Firstly, it would bring thousands of construction jobs to the out-of-work miners of Bo’ness, Stirlingshire, West Lothian and Fife, many more so than would be required to build a bridge.
  • Secondly, a steel bridge would be built with steel that inevitably came from Lanarkshire and would not directly benefit the Forth coast, and would require specialised steel fabricators rather than the sort of work that would suit the skills of miners.
  • Thirdly, the dam would help the region find a convenient way to dispose of its surplus of ugly and often dangerous coal and shale bings, which would provide the perfect infill material.
  • Fourth, and dubiously, they proposed that a new level of the Forth would form a fresh water lake several feet about the natural high tide level thus ridding the estuary of its “hideous black mud-flats“. This, of course, would actually have been an ecological disaster as those mudflats are a rich and critical biome.
  • The elevated water level of the new Loch Forth would benefit shipbuilding in Bo’ness and Grangemouth it was claimed, as with deeper water they could launch larger ships, and the docks of these towns could support larger vessels without tidal restrictions.
  • The giant new lake, cut off from the roughness and vagaries of the sea, would be perfect for the landing of seaplanes, and military and civilian bases were proposed. (Alan Cobham had sent Leith aviation crazy in June 1928 by arriving at its docks in his flying boat.)
  • To top off the lengthy list of benefits of the Forth Dam, “the water… could be used to create hydro-electric power for all the Forth Valley” and would be a “big inducement in bringing new factories to West Lothian, Stirlingshire and parts of Fife“.
  • The roadway along the dam would drastically shorten the distance for vehicular traffic across the Firth and “fast water buses” were also proposed to work passenger transport: Jeffrey foresaw “his man-made lake becoming a highly popular water playground for the whole of Central Scotland“. He imagined it would be akin to the Swiss lakes – or more realistically the Clyde or Loch Lomond – and be served by pleasure steamers visiting picturesque new coastal villages.

    Lake Lucerne paddle steamer “Stadt Luzern”, CC-by-SA 3.0 Sputniktilt

    The intrepid pair set about touting their scheme and trying to gain supporters, which started with a letter to The Scotsman on July 7th 1928 and proceeded onto the pages of the West Lothian Courier and Linlithgowshire Gazette. Locally, they found both vocal support and also incredulity. Jeffrey upped the ante – “When is this squandering of public money going to cease?” he demanded, in the Gazette in 1930, referring to the “millions” being spent on the Dole rather than progressing his scheme. But a lukewarm response was received when details of the scheme were sent to the Prince of Wales (heir to the throne and later Edward VIII), whose private secretary politely declined his patronage saying the Prince couldn’t possibly look into every crackpot scheme that crossed his desk. Instead, the secretary forwarded the scheme on to the Secretary of State for Scotland, Godfrey Collins, from whose intray it never appears to have resurfaced. Within a year or so, it was superseded by serious bridge schemes in the Queensferry area.

    Proposed Forth suspension bridge, August 1935, Scotsman

    The war of course then intervened and the Forth wouldn’t get its downstream road bridge until 1964, but it did gets its car ferries between South and North Queensferry in 1934. You can read more about their amusing habits of running aground in this previous thread. Sixty years later, a smaller barrage scheme, but one that would have been environmentally destructive too, was put forward to infill Wardie Bay between Leith and Granton harbours. You can read more about that over on its own thread.

    Note to readers: unfortunately in April 2026, a third-party plug-in more than exceeded its authority and broke many of the image links on this site. No images were lost but I will have to restore them page-by-page, which may take some time. In the meantime please bear with me while I go about rectifying this issue.

    If you have found this site useful, informative or amusing then you can help contribute towards its running costs by supporting me on ko-fi. This includes my commitment to keeping it 100% advert and AI free for all time coming, and in helping to find further unusual stories to bring you by acquiring books and paying for research.
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    #Lochend #Logan #Restalrig #StMargaret

    The historic Edinburgh pub offering well-earned refreshment at end of walk from ancient volcano

    https://fed.brid.gy/r/https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/scotland-now/historic-edinburgh-pub-offering-well-37022778

    ready to row 03

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    The ignominious end of HMS Caledonia: the thread about how the Navy’s longest ship ended up as scrap metal on the Forth seabed

    Q. What was the largest ship in the Royal Navy at the outbreak of WW2?

    A. As any respectable naval anorak knows, it was the 47,000t, 860ft long battleship HMS Hood, the “Mighty Hood“, pride of the fleet and largest warship afloat. Right? Or… was it the Bismarck?

    HMS Hood, 1924, Allan C. Green photo

    No, the largest ship in the Royal Navy at the outbreak of WW2 was the 56,500t, 956-ft long training ship HMS Caledonia; until 1936 the Cunard-White Star liner RMS Majestic, which until 1922 had been the Hamburg-Amerika liner SS Bismarck. Until 1935, the largest ship in the world

    HMS Caledonia, 1937, en route from Southampton to Rosyth

    The Bismarck was the 3rd and largest of three Hamburg-Amerika liners built immediately prior to WW1; the others were the Vaterland and Imperator. They were ordered to reclaim dominance and German national pride in the Transatlantic liner stakes from the British Cunard and White Star liners. They were to do this by being both the largest and grandest liners afloat. Bismarck was the last of the trio but before she was laid down, the Hamburg-Amerika line found out that the new Cunard liner Aquitania was to be longer than her, so they hastily rejigged the design to add an extra 6 feet on. They needn’t had bothered, they had made been misinformed and Aquitania actually ended up being 50ft shorter than Bismarck.

    Majestic (ex-Bismarck, background) with her sisters the Cunard line’s Berengaria on the right (ex-Imperator) and United States Line’s Leviathan (ex-Vaterland) in the foreground

    It was too late to change the design however and it was too late for her sister Imperator, which had been given the most embarrassingly awful nose job to lengthen her by the vainglorious addition of a massive bronze eagle figurehead which was meant to make her 1ft longer than Aquitania. Fortunately for her appearance this partially fell off during Atlantic storms within a year, and was removed.

    The bronze figurehead on Imperator

    Bismarck was launched in June 1914 by a granddaughter of the Iron Chancellor, but this ceremony was jinxed when she fluffed the swinging of the champagne bottle and it only broke on the second attempt: none other than Kaiser Wilhelm II stepped in to give it his best swing. The outbreak of war found her without a purpose, and construction ground to a halt beyond maintenance work. During the war she was stripped of valuable components, wiring and piping and all her brass and copper. The incomplete hulk was ceded to Britain under the Treaty of Versailles as reparations for the loss of the White Star liner Britannic (sister of Titanic), which had struck a German mine and sunk in 1916 while serving as a hospital ship. This was the largest ship lost in the war, but although she sank in just 55 minutes, all but 30 souls on board were saved. Her sister Imperator went to Cunard as a replacement for the Lusitania, the ill-fated liner whose sinking had outraged America and helped drag that nation into the war against Germany.

    Hospital ship HMHS Britannic during World War I

    White Star sent representatives and shipyard engineers from Harland & Wolff in Belfast to Hamburg to supervise completion of their new possession. The whole ship needed re-wiring, and a mysterious fire that damaged her during completion and which the British put down to sabotage by the German workers was probably an electrical fault: this would be a recurrent theme. She completed in March 1922 and White Star officers were sent to supervise her trials by officers and men of Hamburg-Amerika line. This was marred by briefly running aground, but after a week she was accepted and handed over. Her German name was painted out and replaced with Majestic.

    Majestic at New York shortly after her acquisition by White Star Line

    A White Star crew arrived and sailed her to Southampton, during which time they repainted her funnels into company colours. She arrived exactly 10 years to the day that the Titanic had departed on her ill-fated maiden voyage. Not only the largest in the world, she was arguably the most opulent, designed by the French architect Charles Mewès. Her German builders had trunked the boiler uptakes around the ships sides (rather than through the centre), to allow for huge, uninterrupted interior spaces, and spared no expense on the specification

    First class entrance foyer on the Majestic

    Despite being a foreigner in a time when ocean liners were a symbol of national prestige, she was made White Star flagship and was the pride of the fleet. Her first official duties were to be inspected by King George V and Queen Mary, before heading for New York. She settled down to a glamorous 1920s career on the Atlantic, but one that was always marred by the occasional spontaneous fire in her electrical system, and growing cracks in her decks (which grew to 100ft long) as a result of the lengthening job.

    White Star service poster for Majestic; “The World’s Largest Ship”

    The Depression hit the Transatlantic liners hard, already struggling from a downturn in migrating passengers, and in White Star’s case, poor corporate management. The Majestic frequently found herself on “booze cruises” from a very dry and thirsty Prohibition-era USA to help pay her huge running costs. But the cracks grew bigger, the electrical fires got more frequent and the finances grew ever worse. Cunard and White Star line merged in 1934 in a government-sponsored deal. The new company had too many liners and the older ones began to be disposed of; Majestic survived the initial chop, but her card was marked.

    With the new company flagship Queen Mary under construction, Cunard-White Star made to dispose of the sister ship Berengaria, which was older and more prone to fires, but the larger Majestic had higher running costs so in 1936 was taken out of service instead.

    RMS Queen Mary under construction at John Brown’s yard at Clydebank, c. 1934

    She quietly sailed her last voyage in February that year and disappeared from the schedules without any announcement on her future. In May she was bought by Thomas Ward of Inverkeithing for £115k (c. £6.6m in 2023), the scrapyard where many a liner and battleship ended its days.

    Announcement of the last sailing of the Majestic, Birmingham Gazette, 14th February 1936

    Majestic was taken into dock at Southampton to have her funnels and masts lowered to allow her to sneak beneath the Forth Bridge, but there was a snag – the minor matter of fine legal print of the Treaty of Versailles. Bismarck had been handed over as a prize of war as compensation to White Star, but the terms did not allow the new owner to sell her. Instead, the Royal Navy stepped in and took possession, and “gave” Wards 24 old destroyers of equivalent scrap value in return. Everyone was happy. The lawyers were happy. Cunard-White Star got paid by Wards, Wards got the scrap they had paid for and the Royal Navy got what had been – until 6 months previous – the largest ship in the world, for the price of only a few old rusty relics.

    Majestic in the King George V Dry Dock in Southampton having had her funnels and masts shortened

    The great liner was now taken in for conversion to an enormous training ship, with capacity for 1500 trainee boys and 500 officer apprentices. Her luxurious fittings – apart from the swimming pool – were stripped out, and the vast interior converted to spartan classrooms. Where once her passengers slept in the most luxurious cabins afloat, the new occupants would sling hammocks from the roof beams in time-honoured Royal Navy tradition. In April 1937 she made her last sea voyage, to Rosyth on the Firth of Forth.

    The Majestic passing under the Forth Bridge in April 1937 en route to commissioning as into the Royal Navy

    On arrival, she commissioned as HMS Caledonia, named after the Victorian training ship that had once served on the Forth under that name. Her job was to train the boys and young men who would fill the ranks of the expanding Royal Navy in the run up to the inevitable war. By the end of the year there were 1,000 trainees aboard.

    The training ship HMS Caledonia on the Forth in 1898, an old battleship built in 1810 as HMS Impregnable.

    The new Caledonia only had an expected lifespan of 4 years, she was to plug the gaps until permanent shore facilities could take over; but she didn’t even make this. On the outbreak of war there was a panic that the Luftwaffe would target her for a revenge sinking. This was not without reason and the first air raids over the United Kingdom during the war soon followed over the Forth with the Royal Navy and Rosyth being the target. And so the trainee boys onboard were packed off to safety in the Isle of Man, the officer apprentices were sent ashore at Rosyth, and the great ship was floated out into the Forth and pumped full of water so she would settle on the sea bed at low tide (therefore couldn’t be “sunk”), to await her fate, or another use.

    However the proud old ship had other ideas. Just 26 days after war was declared and a full 17 days before the Luftwaffe arrived over the Forth, she set herself on fire and burnt out, settling on to the bed of the Firth. Her shonky electrical system had the last laugh. With the country now at war with Germany, the niceties of previous treaties could be overlooked, and she was sold to Wards of Inverkeithing – again, for mining as a strategic reserve of scrap iron. She was demolished in situ from 1940-43.

    The wreck of the Caledonia being scrapped, 3rd May 1943. Imperial War Museum Collection, A 9776

    In July 1943, what remained of the hull was patched up and floated around the corner to Inverkeithing, for beaching and final break-up by Wards. This was completed in 1944, her name transferred to a shore station at Oban.

    The remains of Majestic being scrapped at Inverkeithing in 1943-44. IWM A 25218

    After the war, the name was relocated back to Rosyth, where it was a shore training establishment until 1985. It was rehabilitated again at Rosyth in 1996, where it remains to this day, the Navy’s HQ in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The HMS Caledonia which was once the liner RMS Majestic remains the longest ship to have ever commissioned into the Royal Navy, a full 24ft longer than the modern Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers. With her loss in 1939, the battleship HMS Hood would regain her crown as the largest ship in the Navy. In a sardonic twist of fate, Hood would be sunk in May 1941 by a German ship named Bismarck – with great loss of life.

    German naval photo of the sinking of HMS Hood. Bundesarchiv, Bild 146-1998-035-05 / Lagemann / CC-BY-SA 3.0

    Note to readers: unfortunately in April 2026, a third-party plug-in more than exceeded its authority and broke many of the image links on this site. No images were lost but I will have to restore them page-by-page, which may take some time. In the meantime please bear with me while I go about rectifying this issue.

    If you have found this site useful, informative or amusing then you can help contribute towards its running costs by supporting me on ko-fi. This includes my commitment to keeping it 100% advert and AI free for all time coming, and in helping to find further unusual stories to bring you by acquiring books and paying for research.
    Or please do just share this post on social media or amongst friends and like-minded people, sites like this thrive on being shared.

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    #Lochend #Logan #Restalrig #StMargaret

    Sunny South Queensferry and the Forth Rail Bridge.

    #FirthOfForth #SQ #edinburgh #scotland #photography #bridge #trains

    Taken this day, 2025 - Because you're mine, I walk the line...
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    Cramond Isle and Causeway at low tide. Every year a numbr of eejits ignore the large warning signs & forget about the tides, getting stuck on the island & having to call for rescue.

    #Edinburgh #Edimbourg #Cramond #photography #photographie #FirthOfForth #CramondCauseway #CramondIsland #BlackAndWhitePhotography

    Because You're Mine, I Walk The Line 01

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    No, never gets old.
    #inchkeith #firthofforth #sailing