Eileen Brown ☑️
So my question today is:
How will mastodon be governed? What's to stop the bad guys opening up instances and joining the federation?
Who says that subversive content is not allowed and should be taken off the instance, or banned.
Lots of challenges for a nascent platform I think..
Apr 10, 2017 at 9:49amWeb
Show threadEric OesterleApr 10, 2017

@eileenb

I've been thinking about some of these future challenges.

But mostly, I'm enjoying the moment. This new space. Each instance with its own emerging ethos. The breathing room and nuance of 500 characters, vs pressure & sharp elbows of 140.

So, like a promising new bar or restaurant, I'm trying not to figure out how it will fail, even as I see the rough edges.

I'm not really caring about "retoots" or "going viral". And I'm valuing the chance to build a fresh, diverse set of friends.

Show threadvmcamposApr 10, 2017
@eileenb It's up to sysadmins to decide to federate with others, isn't it?
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb Admins and instances are autonomous. Each can decide what instances they do (or don't) peer with. This isn't unlike other network protocols like email (SMTP) or internet routing (BGP). There are channels for admins to talk to each other (an organisational mailing list), and tools which are built into protocols and servers themselves (Mastodon is only one of several at play).

It's safe to assume bad guys /will/ open instances, or worse, guys or girls who simply don't care what happens.

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb That's not to say there aren't consequences. There are already instances which have (or threatened) to ban others over the actions of a single user. Part of this comes down to how fine-grained tools are for moderation (at both the admin and user level), the challenges of identity and vetting (loose, and a major problem all over IT), the ease with which new instances and users can be created, etc., etc. I /don't/ agree that a total hands-off policy works or is appropriate, unlikke some.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb You can also expect that instances (or users) who act in bad faith, or who prove disruptive, /will/ be blocked or retaliated. There's some of that happening now with bots. For all the cries of "Free Speech", if another, or multiple Instances disallow comms with a specific instance, that's going to pressurise the shunned party fairly severely.

On identity: "Who are you?" is the most expensive question in information technology. No matter how you get it wrong, you're screwed.

Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 10, 2017
@dredmorbius I like your points.. a lot :-)
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb Thanks. I speak only for myself, but I've been 'round the block a few times, seen the inside and the outside.

A flipside of this that might be an interesting angle to consider is the psychological toll on Admins themselves as Shit Gets Realer. Most Instances are small/shoestring operations, and just the hassle of dealing with difficult users (local or remote) can also weigh.

I very much recommend @maiyannah and @MoonMan, OSocial, on this.

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb I'd also canvas the Mastodon admins, there's a mailing list here:
https://lists.ffdn.org/wws/info/mastodon-admin

(I've also created a bit of an information resource: https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/34102)

Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 10, 2017
@dredmorbius @MoonMan @maiyannah Thanks, I see an article on this and its impact coming up.. :-)
Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 10, 2017
@dredmorbius yeah - that's what I mean. So if someone on an instance starts tooting in a language that the admin doesn't understand - how will that be governed? Its a huge headache for companies like Twitter and FB - will be even more so here I think...
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb I /strongly/ expect that there's going to be some translation engine implemented Real Soon Now. There's already support for /specifying/ languages, and instances might decide that they are an X language-zone only, say.
Show threadEric OesterleApr 10, 2017
@eileenb @dredmorbius Offended users will likely flag content and/or reach out to the admin, hopefully with specific reasons and translations. Even without these, an admin can use translation services elsewhere.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@erico @eileenb True. For context: NY Times comment moderation team averages 800 messages/day each (published stats in the past year). Mastodon admins ... have other responsibilities and/or day jobs. /Not/ having to manually run text through Google Translate would at the least be of use to them.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb The reason the "we don't care" attitude sucks is that shunning such an instance will hurt a bunch of innocents -- they become human shields, effectively. My recommendation to the fediverse would be "suck it up and take the hit". Though migration tools would be really, really, really nice to have in that case.
Show threadJon Farmer ✅Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb Good questions

Also what do you do to protect yourself?

Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 10, 2017
@viperdudeuk 10: give nothing away that you would not want to have repeated back to you in a court of law. 20: Be respectful 30: goto 10 :)
Show threadJon Farmer ✅Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb ha ha like it
Show threadRysiekúr (old account)Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb o my question today is:
How will e-mail be governed? What's to stop the bad guys opening up e-mail servers and joining other e-mail users?
Who says that subversive content is not allowed and should be taken off the e-mail server, or banned.
Lots of challenges for a nascent platform I think.. #Mastodon #BeenThereDoneThat #NotMagic
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb Among the governance / standards discussions: https://social.heldscal.la/notice/1605755
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb on standards: https://mastodon.cloud/@IvanSim/287770
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017
@eileenb https://community.highlandarrow.com/notice/852648
Show threadScottMortimerApr 10, 2017
@eileenb I look forward to the day when anyone can easily run their own federated instance with complete autonomy and control to block users or even entire instances if they wish to. Federation shouldn't mean having to deal with asswipes and nazis like IRL. 🙂
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb And one more :grinning:

https://mst3k.interlinked.me/@Elizafox/3262

Show threadSoapDogApr 10, 2017

@eileenb mastodon doesnt need "governing", instances can block other instances. Even though they are on the federation, they will not appear on your instance if they are banned or if no one on you instance follows them.

There will always be disagreements in a federation, but the cool thing here, is that they only appear to you after they have been followed.

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@eileenb By the way, in case you missed the "co-founder" excitement:

https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/320240

Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 11, 2017
@dredmorbius I did!! - I was doing paid stuff and had to focus!!
impressive that there are impersonators already... fame growing :-)
Show thread[EUnomia Trust Factor: 21/100]Apr 18, 2017
@eileenb The people have I talked to are very happy with the quality of your article!
Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 18, 2017
@MoonMan thanks I have you to thank for the back end open source bits. I'm a Windows techie through and through
You really helped..
Show threadBoris MannApr 19, 2017

@eileenb I think that thinking about Mastodon as a blog rather than as distributed Twitter will help.

That is, anyone can post stuff on their blog, people don't have to subscribe or comment.

The owner of the blog gets to moderate / delete comments.

Think about who your owner is.

Also: it's open source, and under the AGPL. If I make local, interesting changes, I am required to share them back. But different instances could run different plugins.

Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 19, 2017
@boris another nice solution - that might help many newbies - the owner of the instance is king....
but as iuventus (roman satirist) said in satire 5 (I think) 'who will guard the guards'
We shall have to wait and see...
Show threadLew PerinApr 18, 2017

@eileenb My understanding is, there’s nothing to stop “bad guys” from opening instances. But “good” instances needn’t link to them.

Of course, that doesn’t stop a bad guy from sneaking into a good instance and causing havoc from there, but the local admin can then ban the bad guy.

In meatspace this unlinking and banning would be considered dictatorial, but here? Find an instance that’ll tolerate you; failing that, build or buy your own: not that big an undertaking. /1

Show threadLew PerinApr 18, 2017
@eileenb In case I wasn’t clear, I put quotes around “bad guy” for a reason. We needn’t agree on who’s good and who’s bad for this scheme to work well for everyone: everyone, that is, who isn’t interested in suppressing others’ speech altogether. /end
Show threadEileen Brown ☑️Apr 19, 2017
@babelcarp some great points there - some 'bad guys' are only bad due to differing opinions.
some folks totally agree with Sharia law principles for example, whilst others are utterly opposed to it.
finding a solution that would suit everyone in the fediverse would be impossible...