Patrick4d ago

Catholicism has this idea of servile fear and filial fear. How the worst kind of fear of God is just fear of the punishments in store for you and the best kind is to fear disappointing your God like you would someone you love and respect.

It's cute.

But it's bonkers.

Knowing what God does and allows and has done, if you believe, should immediately disqualify you from respecting #God at all.

How could I really love someone who would for funsies murder children? I can fear 'em though.

Show threadVyvyan Basterd4d ago
@PatrickoftheG it's a continual process of renegotiation. Christianity brings a new covenant and essentially discards the OT god, and pushing the messianic vision of Judaism that is free from the constraints of the Temple and the priestly class. All that wrath stuff is erased. Love your neighbor, aid the sick, champion the oppressed.
Show threadVyvyan Basterd4d ago
@PatrickoftheG the main thing is that, from a text-critical perspective, all that OT stuff is mostly oral tradition and little morality stories. The "priestly" account of Genesis 1 is the "right" one, the Adam-and-Eve stuff in Genesis 2 is an older story (note how in Genesis 1, God fucking NAILS IT, but in 2, he's fucking up constantly). Point being, everything is a negotiation, a bunch of choices on what you want to allow or discard.
Show threadPatrick4d ago
@neurobashing You know what, I am being unfair fine you're right.
Show threadVyvyan Basterd3d ago
@PatrickoftheG I don’t think you’re being unfair; I’m just trying to present the text-critical argument, as an alternative frame. Meaning is generated by how we approach the text, and how authorities explain it to lay people. More like “you’re not being unfair; you’re correct, but it doesn’t have to be like that”
Show threadPatrick2d ago
@neurobashing I suppose I forget that my take on it isn't the default take, or isn't even a real regular take. Not that it isn't a valid one.
Show threadVyvyan Basterd2d ago
@PatrickoftheG another fun thing I learned, getting into text-critical approaches to the Bible, is just how fucking bad the KJV is, on like every level. It's crap! It wasn't even good when it was created! And yet people use it as a real thing.
Show threadPatrick2d ago

@neurobashing That I am familiar with due to some truly special acquaintances. They took it to the next level. There are KJV supremacists out there who think it's more accurate than the actual couple of languages it was all originally written in. Most of them think it's only the most accurate translation at least for English. But the hardcore ones blew my mind.

I never fiddled around much with learning about especially bad translated bits.

If you have any choice examples, love to see em.

Show threadVyvyan Basterd
@PatrickoftheG a good and recent video, with examples https://youtu.be/KVcV__ZuiR8
Is the most famous Bible translation really all that good?

YouTube
Jun 26 at 12:12amWeb
Show threadlower-value human capital2d ago
@neurobashing @PatrickoftheG As an atheist, I don't give a rat's arse about accuracy. I like the KJV for the poetry.
Show threadVyvyan Basterd1d ago
@sennoma @PatrickoftheG I think it's notable (accuracy) in an academic/text-critical frame, but theists will always use their holy texts as proof for their prejudices; I mean there's entire separate translations that favor the complementarian reading. I guess, it's like, I wish I had a better class of opponent. The ones who yell KJV at me, are just insane apologists and dogmatics.
Show threadlower-value human capital1d ago

@neurobashing @PatrickoftheG I mean, don't get me wrong, I like a good exegesis of ancient texts as much as the next nerd. Did you know there's a Stack Overflow for the bible?

But genuine belief in a god, any god, is evidence of disordered thinking and feigned belief in same is disingenuous at best, so I don't think you'll find the opponent you want.

Show threadVyvyan Basterd1d ago
@sennoma funniest part to me are the Catholics - as many as a quarter of Catholics, by some studies! - who do not possess a belief in the supernatural parts. Resurrection didn't happen, no burning bush, no miracles. They're just in it for the love of the game