Mastodawn

I updated neovim to 0.12.2 today, and it is completely broken. It deletes things I write, closes windows at random, goes to the next line when I `:w` and so many more bugs. It‘s the only thing I updated, and it worked completely fine before that. I‘m so angry, it is an essential tool for me and I‘m unable to work with this mess. I never had a vim or neovim update break anything in over 10 years. And now it is completely broken. For now, I will switch to vim, but I consider vim-classic and helix as the next step.

I can see no other reason for this than neovim adopting Claude et al heavily. It‘s the same story as rsync: A perfect track record, and now horrible bugs. I‘m sorry, but I really don‘t understand why stories like these keep happening, and people still think these tools are fine.

[Update: I ran it with no plugins and an empty config, the problems remain]
[Update 2: After some experimenting, I now figured out: It is the combination of the terminal emulator kitty (which is also adopting LLM-based development heavily 😒) and nvim >= 0.12.0]

@moonglum Wow, didn’t know neovim also went down that trail. What an utterly mess.

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@stdevel Both vim and neovim, unfortunately 🫠

Hasko 🇪🇺🦄🌻4d ago

@moonglum I was going to write about vim but even they are on to this bullshit? 🤨 @stdevel

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@lontrachen @stdevel From what I‘ve seen, vim is even worse than neovim. The maintainers have huge threads where they just copy and paste answers of „their chatbot“ to each other. „But my chatbot said…“ „Oh, but my chatbot said“. Depressing to read.

Michael Simons 4d ago

@moonglum @lontrachen @stdevel That I did not want to hear today.

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@rotnroll666 @lontrachen @stdevel Sorry, Michael 😞

Muss das sein.4d ago

@moonglum @rotnroll666 @lontrachen @stdevel shoot the messenger? ;)

Helix seems to still work. :)

Hasko 🇪🇺🦄🌻4d ago

@rotnroll666 was definitely not on my bingo card @moonglum @stdevel

Mikalai 20h ago

@moonglum @stdevel
So, it is nano time now?

@moonglum @stdevel not sure if someone's mentioned it but you might find vim-classic or eVi helpful: two different slop-free forks of vim (vim 8 and vim 9 respectively).

https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/vim-classic/ https://codeberg.org/evi-editor/evi

(unfortunately I don't know of any good options if you rely on nvim's lua support)

Gina Häußge 4d ago

@stdevel @moonglum same, big thanks for the heads-up! Time to give vim-classic and helix a look myself I guess.

Fscking slop crap.

Edvin Malinovskis 4d ago

@stdevel @moonglum yeah, very much a "holup! Et tu?" moment for me as well 🤯

Sandra Parsick 4d ago

@moonglum sending hugs

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@sparsick Thanks ❤️ Really hard to keep calm if a tool breaks so hard you literally can‘t work anymore 🫠

Sandra Parsick 4d ago

@moonglum I feel you. Sad to see how many good tools choose that trail.

A few days ago, I stop evaluating a new service when I see that they use AI agents for the development. I'm tired

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@sparsick Same 🫂

@moonglum interesting. I am at 0.12.3 and have no such issues. Not one of what you mentioned...

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@musicmatze 0.12.3 is not available in my distro yet. But honestly: These bugs are so bad, my trust is completely gone, even if they were fixed.

@moonglum sure, I feel you completely and wouldn't do otherwise except that I can't go away from some essential tools without becoming a caveman again wrt everything computers 😔

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@musicmatze Same here, but caveman life becomes more appealing…

@moonglum you gotta point there.

@moonglum @musicmatze *more bearable

Lucas Dohmen 3d ago

@FND @musicmatze 🐻

@moonglum @musicmatze might as well go all-in here

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum I'm sorry for the bad experience you had. I'm very happy with neovim and luckily didn't experience those issues.

Did you try if the issues also happen when you run neovim without a config?

There is already a 0.12.3 release - maybe some of those bugs are already fixed?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits Yes, I tried it with an empty config, same problems… (at least most of them, I gave up quite quickly).

It is possible that the issues where fixed in the .3 release, but it is not available in my distro yet. And honestly: Those are not „a few small bugs“, this thing is unusable. My trust in this tool is completely gone.

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum I can recommend the appimage provided by the neovim project itself. I'm using it on Debian stable since a couple of years without any issues.

That's sad. For me it's a great editor with a great community and plugin eco system.
Of course, allowing AI for contributions is controversial, but I haven't heard any negative reports about an increasing number of bugs before yours.

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits Fingers crossed that it will keep working for you!

@moonglum rsync as wel??

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@jarno Oh yes, rsync as well 🙁

https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@JeremiahFieldhaven/116654345332213390

Jeremiah Fieldhaven (@[email protected])

So my systems recently updated to rsync 3.4.3, and as soon as that happened my backup system - which does incremental backups using multiple --compare-dest= arguments - started to fail on anything but a full backup. Revert to 3.4.1 and it works. So I go look at the source in GitHub to see what might have changed, because there doesn't seem to be anything relevant in the changelog. Since 3.4.1, 36 commits by "tridge and claude" Oh for fuck's sakes.

Gamedev Mastodon

@moonglum @jarno https://medium.com/@tridge60/rsync-and-outrage-d9849599e5a0
rsync not really

rsync and outrage

I gave up blogging a long time ago (apart from an occasional thing about ArduPilot), I tend to just write code and hope people find it…

Medium

Alex Hyett 4d ago

@moonglum that sucks. At least if something starts off vibe coded you can avoid it but wrecking previously working products is just sad.

Έλλεν Εμίλια Ά. Arson ζ.4d ago

@moonglum Technically, helix too, although not that bad yet. https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/commit/22d0d294bdb2e8f90fd6cb6f2546aefe2844e642

perf(completers): use DirEntry::file_type() instead of metadata() (#1… · helix-editor/helix@22d0d29

…5433) `DirEntry::file_type()` uses the `d_type` field from `readdir` on Linux, avoiding a per-entry `lstat` syscall that `DirEntry::metadata()` requires. Behavior is unchanged as both return syml...

GitHub

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@fogti Sigh, thanks for the hint 🥲

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@fogti Seems to be that single commit, from what I see:
https://slopscan.ava.pet/repo/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub%2Ecom%2Fhelix%2Deditor%2Fhelix

That‘s definitely a different level than what is happening in vim/neovim. I will keep that in mind though – thanks!

https://github.com/helix-editor/helix

@moonglum @fogti A single commit from a contributor with no other commits, so yeah, seems fine

Muss das sein.4d ago

@fogti @moonglum oh no.

@moonglum oh boy ... such tools going down the drain with AI slop ... that I do not like. I thought neovim contributors would be interested in the art of programming, rather than "generating" results 🤷 Looks like I got the wrong impression in the first place.

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

By empty config you mean `--clean`?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits I tried both: Deleting everything in my init.lua, and —clean. The result is the same.

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum So when you have a file open in a buffer, and you save it with `:w`, then the cursor goes down one line in the buffer?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits Yes, that‘s one of the bugs 👍 Completely reproducible, happens every time.

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum I thought I could reproduce it with

https://github.com/neovim/neovim/releases/download/v0.12.2/nvim-linux-x86_64.appimage

but it doesn't happen here.

Does it happen for you with the appimage?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits I can even reproduce it in a container:

podman run --rm -it alpine
nvim --version # 0.12.2
apk add neovim
nvim

=> this bug, as well as some of the other bugs are there. (Also works with docker)

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum And with the appimage I was using as well?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits Yep, that app image has the same issues 🙈

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits I now also downloaded the 0.12.3 version as an app image, same issues

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum That's really strange that it doesn't happen to me with the same appimages.

Can you give another example of a concrete bug which I can try to reproduce?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits The bugs happen reproducible on my machine for 0.12.2 (Alpine and App Image) and 0.12.3 (App Image). I just tried it with an older Alpine and Debian in containers (both < 0.12), where it does not happen. So it is definitely the update (and as I‘m using no config, it can’t be my neovim config or a plugin either).

The other bug I see immeaditely: in insert mode, it inserts an empty line after each line I add. And when I do :e and go up and down the list, it always skips an entry. As I said: It is completely broken.

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

I can't reproduce those issues if I understood them correctly.

But it sounds like an additional Return keypress is sent to the editor. Could it be related to the terminal emulator or a terminal multiplexer you're using?

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@okraits I don‘t use a multiplexer and my terminal emulator is kitty. You might be right, it could be kitty + nvim 0.12 👍 I will try it tomorrow, I closed my computer for the day.

(But, still, it must be caused by a change in nvim, as it works fine with kitty + nvim 0.10 and 0.11)

Thanks!

Oliver Kraitschy 4d ago

@moonglum Good luck - would be nice if you would get it sorted out.

You're welcome, I'm happy to help.

Lucas Dohmen 3d ago

@okraits Yep, it is the combination of kitty (need to determine a version range) and neovim (via App Images, I nailed it done to 0.12.0, the previous version works fine). I‘ll create an issue on the Neovim tracker.

Oliver Kraitschy 3d ago

@moonglum Good catch.

I would assume that someone must have stumbled over this before as there are probably some people using both kitty and neovim.

And I hope it doesn't become a finger-pointing between neovim and kitty.

@moonglum Running 0.12.2 on my work laptop 8 hours a day and didn't saw a single bug until now. I even can't reproduce your ":w changes the line", neither locally nor with your alpine setup further down the thread.

I don't want to play devils advocate for vibecoding but apparently even your simplest example is not that easy to reproduce.

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@fleaz So what you‘re saying is…? It happens reproducible on my machine for 0.12.2 (Alpine and App Image) and 0.12.3 (App Image). I just tried it with an older Alpine and stable Debian in containers (both < 0.12), where it does not happen. So…?

@moonglum What im saying is: If it only happens on your machine, and not on my machine, this bugs depends on a specific condition (whatever it is) and does not happen 100% of the time.

Therefore the devs maybe also didn't saw it.

Lucas Dohmen 4d ago

@fleaz Yep, applications like vim, neovim, bash… run on macOS, all kinds of flavors of Linux, *BSDs… for centuries. Nothing about that has changed.

@moonglum
Sending 🫂