fincsJun 15
Shaun Walker

My early teens were spent largely online, and it allowed me to connect with people from all over the world. I would be a lesser person if I was restricted to only knowing the people geographically close to me.

This just increases the impact of the birth postcode lottery. And will continue this country’s decline backwards instilling more insular and xenophobic attitudes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/social-media-to-be-banned-for-under-16s-in-landmark-government-move-to-givekids-their-childhood-back

Social media to be banned for under-16s in landmark government move to give kids their childhood back

Social media platforms to be blocked from offering services to under-16s, marking a line in the sand and setting a new normal for future generations.

GOV.UK
Jun 15 at 9:03amWeb
Show threadDavid PeachJun 15
@theshaunwalker social media should be treated like any other class a drug.
Show threadschuelermineJun 15
@peach @theshaunwalker lol, lmao even
insane statement
Show threadDavid PeachJun 15
@anselmschueler @theshaunwalker Do you believe that social media is damaged to children?
Show threadschuelermineJun 15

@peach @theshaunwalker

It is possible that there are harms unique to social media in general. It is definitely the case that social media as it exists right now has done harm.

I find it very unlikely either of these harms are as severe as the harm done by the most harshly regulated drugs, such as heroin.

It is not necessarily the case that equivalent harms mean that equivalent or similar legal restrictions are a good idea. In the case of social media, I am very sure that a ban is inappropriate.

Show threadDavid PeachJun 15

RE: https://davidpeach.me/notes/284839/

@anselmschueler @theshaunwalker
@punissuer

I tried to explain myself a bit better on my main account: https://phpc.social/@david@davidpeach.me/116754673825210893

Show threadpunIssuerJun 15
@peach @theshaunwalker what a peculiar thing to say on a social network...
Show threadDavid PeachJun 15

@punissuer @theshaunwalker

Do you believe Twitter/Facebook/ticktoc etc are the same as mastodon etc?

Algorythmic social media is completely toxic to all who use it. Young people aren't mental developed yet. To put them in a place of active harm (which is rewarded on those networks) is just bad.

"Class a drug" is maybe an extreme way of putting it. But the point stands.

Show threadpunIssuerJun 15
@peach @theshaunwalker do you think mastodon *is* a social media platform?
Show threadDavid PeachJun 15
@punissuer @theshaunwalker no, I do not.
Show threadocelot221Jun 15
@peach @punissuer @theshaunwalker Of course it is. Not the same as TikTok or X, but it is still a social media platform.
Show threadDavid PeachJun 18

@ocelot221 @punissuer @theshaunwalker A platform is a single source that everyone connects to.

By this, each individual instance could be a "platform". Fediverse projects/instances are a part of a wider decentralised network.

It's not a platform.

Show threadThe Penguin of EvilJun 15
@peach @theshaunwalker Then lock Elon Musk up for 30 years for pedalling twitter. Sounds a fair compromise 8)
Show threadKhleedrilJun 15
@theshaunwalker This ought to be the straw that breaks the camel's back; we should insist on democracy in face of losing so much liberty from our society and demand a referendum on this subject. The government is changing the nature of Great Britain and thinks it can get away with it with impunity.
Show threadFardels BearJun 15

@theshaunwalker

Conveniently opening the door to mass surveillance for everyone.

Show threadvepř jako pepřJun 15
@theshaunwalker Why is even this headline written as some crappy slogan, a government provides means for irresponsible people to inherit the cockpit that the monarchs were ousted from, which vastly differs even from the pre monarchical relations
Show threadLyndsay BarwellJun 15
@theshaunwalker
Same here. Something needs to be done about modern social media which is addictive but a complete ban is not good. The people I met through forums taught me about the world.
Show threadWilfried KlaebeJun 15

Ban "for you" timelines. Default must be posts of those you follow, in the order they were posted. Like we usually have here on the Fediverse.

@treehugger @theshaunwalker

Show threadLyndsay BarwellJun 15
@wonka
Yes, agreed. People should see what they choose. But this is a problem for all ages.
@theshaunwalker
Show threadWilfried KlaebeJun 15

@treehugger Yes. I want those dopamine inducing algorithms banned for all ages.

@theshaunwalker

Show threadEthan BlackJun 15
@[email protected] @[email protected] I think "the algorithm" is largely to blame... people think that what they see is what's common IRL, but that's just not true. "The algorithm" wants to show you not necessarily what's common, but what's going to keep you online. People will say, 'oh I see this on social media all the time, so it must be a problem'.

At least on the Fediverse you can be more aware of what the biases in your feed are going to be.
Show threadStefan IhringerJun 15
@treehugger @theshaunwalker It’s sad how governments failed to hold the social media billionaires responsible. And even the timid fines that the EU imposed were not collected by Ireland (if I remember correctly) or the EU shied away due to pressure from the US.
But when it’s about age verification that enables another boost to the surveillance state it all gets passed quickly.
Show threadgaryJun 15
@compfu @treehugger @theshaunwalker
Show threadSu_GJun 15
@theshaunwalker
So well said. I hope people like you can find ways to help young people who are now to be locked out of such experiences & support. 🙏🏻🙂
Show threadAlbert CardonaJun 15

@theshaunwalker

Good luck to the UK gov in banning IRC and similar? And new ones that may come up stimulated by this top-down ban?

We all know that it's the giant social media companies who need regulating. That politicians lack the will do to so is well evident; these companies already are in violation of existing laws in the UK and the government hasn't touched them.

Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEJun 15
@theshaunwalker An earlier way for teenage boys to "connect with people all over the world" was to set up as a radio ham. I see that this technology enabled social network doesn't appear to be on the banned list.
Show threadTC Won't Give In To LiesJun 15

@theshaunwalker

Glad you had a good experience. Many did not - and demand this regulation.

While I agree with your goal of broadening horizons, the worldwide rise in xenophobia and hate crimes is pretty damning evidence that the tools currently on offer by these techbros are doing the opposite.

This is not about banning all access to the online world. It's a start at protecting people from the most rapacious sites. Much more is needed, esp data privacy and safety for all ages.

Show threadARGVMI~1.PIFJun 15

@TCatInReality

Unless I'm mistaken, the proposal includes prohibiting anyone under 16 from talking to strangers on any and all sites.

That's functionally a total ban from the entire Internet, because everyone is a stranger at first.

It's also functionally a total ban of all sites that aren't billionaire-funded, because only billionaires can afford age checks.

So yes, it's about banning all access to the online world. For everyone, not just kids.

Except X and Facebook.

@theshaunwalker

Show threadARGVMI~1.PIFJun 15

@TCatInReality

Now, I don't know about you, but I really really *really* do not want to live in a world where Elon Musk has a monopoly on speech.

And that's where I fear this is going.

@theshaunwalker

Show threadTC Won't Give In To LiesJun 16

@argv_minus_one @theshaunwalker

I believe you are mistaken about the scope. Of course, we don't have the actual legislation, but this covers what we do know.

As for prohibiting all talking to strangers on every site...
"The government has only specified a handful of sites included in the UK's social media ban. These are Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and X."

BBC News - Five big questions about the UK's under-16s social media ban
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9824zvpz9po

Five big questions about the UK's under-16s social media ban

A ban is coming - but it's still not clear what it will mean for sites including Roblox, YouTube and WhatsApp.

BBC News
Show threadShaun WalkerJun 16

@TCatInReality @argv_minus_one The governments own press release says "This would capture user-to-user platforms, whose purpose is to enable social interaction [...] The ban will therefore include platforms like Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and X"

platforms LIKE...

The way the govt. handled the Online Safety Act. They are 100% uncaring about the blast radius of this kind of legislation, and will happily let every community die, unless they explicitly state otherwise.

Show threadTC Won't Give In To LiesJun 16

@theshaunwalker @argv_minus_one

Ok. And exactly how many community sites has the gov investigated and/or fined under #OSA? I believe it's zero - focusing on 4chan and a nudify AI site. As expected, gov is going to use it's limited resources on extreme cases.

Whereas I've seen lots of noise about sites pulling their own pages down because of scaremongering about OSA.

Sorry, I have existing posts debunking OSA hype, if interested. To me, that pivot only undermines your credibility.

Show threadShaun WalkerJun 16

@TCatInReality @argv_minus_one it was a parallel example not a pivot, as to how we cannot give govt the benefit of the doubt. They must be challenged on the widest interpretation of their own words before it becomes law.

The parallel I draw is in how the govt is haphazard with the legislation they try and do, the collatoral damage, for zero payoff as you say they don't even prosecute to the law they create.

I'm a dude pissed off the UK is going down the shitter, I don't have credibility.

Show threadTC Won't Give In To LiesJun 16

@theshaunwalker @argv_minus_one
Again, using your own "parallel example" where has the gov enforced #OSA that you would object to?

Side note: don't get me wrong. I support many of the things in your bio. I think we need to be critical of corporate-bought gov. But I also think corporations AstroTurf to keep us from using government to helping citizens. There's a lot of scaremongering about OSA and now this U16 rule, but very little evidence.

Show threadShaun WalkerJun 16

@TCatInReality @argv_minus_one this derailed over crossed wires of the original point so I'm not pulling further on that thread.

I cant speak for other scaremongering, but the literal interpretation of govt words, when they are explicitly talking about creating laws, where the widest interpretation is the default in law, is not scaremongering.

I interpret you seem to be in favour of these trends, but we are well into a slippery slope of total control "for the sake of the children".

Show threadTC Won't Give In To LiesJun 16

@theshaunwalker @argv_minus_one

After decades of the techbros experimenting on humanity, getting enormously wealthy with zero accountability - yes, I support any gov's effort to hold tech companies to account.

Of course, the way thru legislation is fraught, esp in an area this new. That's why it's critical we demand our democratic processes work through the issues and compromise.

I've got no time for dismissive generalities and worst case scenario thinking. But it's OK we don't agree.

Show threadJT LeskinenJun 15
@theshaunwalker @teemuki Well said. I ,among others in the youth research field here in Finland, am trying to steer the conversation towards the benefits of online communities and friendships, and towards strict regulation of social media companies.
Show threadEggs now in different baskets.Jun 15

@theshaunwalker When I was a teenager the closest thing to the internet was a suite of BBC Micros connected to an Econet network.

I do not see that the UK was more or less xenophobic then than now. I lived through the era of Enoch Powell and the euphoria of finally joining the "Common Market".

Perhaps the difference was that the chattering classes and up could still ignore other people's realities.

Now, all of these realities, the good, the bad, and the ugly are impossible to avoid.

Show threadLisa PrestwichJun 15

@theshaunwalker There are significant studies showing the harm it does, not just to young people. Some of the things I've heard my students watch are literally horrifying. I try to teach them to use it wisely, but peer pressure is a far greater power than education.

I have to agree, that this problem is not unique to social media - the entirety of the media industry has been perpetuating the worst of humanity for generations. We need to learn the effects of modelling, and regulate the platforms

Show threadARGVMI~1.PIFJun 15

@lisa_practicaleducation

If these governments start demanding billion-dollar ID check/face scan/AI content moderation/etc systems, that's not regulating the platforms.

That's annihilating the alternatives. That's giving Elon Musk a monopoly on speech.

I do not want Elon Musk to have a monopoly on speech.

I really *really* do not want Elon Musk to have a monopoly on speech.

@theshaunwalker

Show threadjayJun 15
@theshaunwalker Is this a plan to get them all addicted to chat bots?
Show threadStephanieJun 15
@theshaunwalker If you’d even have people geographically close to you that are cool and not just bullying you for shits and giggles. :)
Show threaddisorderlyfJun 15

@theshaunwalker "to give kids their childhood back."

I say this as someone who is multiple flavours of queer and raised Jehovahs Witness in the American South: This will take the childhood from kids. I'm aware the UK and the American South are not the same place. I bring this up because how difficult I'm told by people who actually live there that it's getting is at least as scary in the UK as it was for me as someone who got death threats to my face for being queer growing up.

I wish I was exaggerating and being dramatic when I said this is going to kill children. Maybe if every single child in the British isles had a good relationship with their family, nobody was ever abused by someone directly in their life and bullying didn't involve basically telling kids to their faces they would kill them the first chance they ever get, just straight up banning social media would sort of work the way they think it will.

Show threadĞÖKÜ👻👻™Jun 15
@theshaunwalker UK government doing good
Show threadmossmanJun 15
@theshaunwalker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWEcewY-jP0
Children banned from social media?

YouTube
Show threadBill ZaumenJun 15

@theshaunwalker

I've included a link to a youtube video I created a few years ago. It shows an animation of a double-slit diffraction experiment with individual photons being recorded so you can see how the interference pattern becomes discernible as more and more photons are detected. Each detector has a finite width so the result is a bit choppy.

For the UK, it now seems that children interested in science will not be able to view this "dangerous" video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvV3Wnd_c9s

DoubleSlit

YouTube
Show threadFrankJun 15
@theshaunwalker but I think dating got ∞ harder for shy normal men because of global connection.
♀️ having much more to choose from and hope to wait for a better men...
Show threadWandering StarJun 15
@theshaunwalker This is constant surveillance.
Show threadDavid August ❌👑Jun 15

@theshaunwalker Thank you for posting that, you inspired me to write a... revised version:

https://stuff.davidaugust.com/social-media-to-be-banned-for-under-16s-in-landmark-government-move-for-more-control/

#satire #SocialMedia #privacy #DigitalSafety #DigitalEthics #tech #age #safety

Social Media to Be Banned for Under-16s in Landmark Government Move for More Control

A power grab and embellishment of the surveillance state that is merely being dressed up as an effort to protect people.

David August
Show threadHugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷Jun 16
@theshaunwalker Copying Australia, which found preventing cyberbullyiny 'too hard', so they opted for punishing all under 16s instead...farcically claiming to protect them from the same harms they wallow in, on X, FB, and Instagram.
It seemingly doesn't bother them that workarounds have already been established, and the platforms are not playing their part.
Expose the fraud.
Show threadx0Jun 16
@theshaunwalker As a blind person, online friends are my only friends. No other blind people are geographically close to me and my combination of blindness and neurodivergence meant I operated on pretty much a completely different wavelength than anyone I went to school with. If I didn't have access to the internet and to those friends all over the world I legitimately don't know how I would have turned out. I certainly wasn't in a great place at the time.
Show threadHenk LangeveldJun 18

@theshaunwalker

My son was active in Minecraft communities with some supervision.
I would not have wanted to take that away from him.

He's still friends with that group, most of which were three to five years older.

Once he turned 18, 19 he travelled to London to meet up face to face.