Kaja 
Question for cis men:
In which ways have you deconstructed your patriarchal programming?
@Newstrujew
@pathfinder
@Aspiedan
@PatternChaser
@sakurasubnet
@forse
@Laberpferd
@rat
Thank you for sharing your interesting perspectives with me. I didn't comment on your replies, because I wanted to create a judgement free space for you. I would like to read more content like this here on Mastodon. It would be great if cis men themselves initiated an exchange like this.
PatternChaser@KaCi @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @sakurasubnet @forse @Laberpferd @rat
As a tiny young child, I learned that there are victims (most of us) and there are bullies — those strong enough to take what they wanted (and they did). That nearly all of them were male escaped me.
Later I heard the term patriarchy, and recognised it as a description of some (most!) bullies.
Being #AuDHD gave me a different perspective, as several others have also described here. 🤷 😢
SakuraSubnet 🥙@PatternChaser @KaCi @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat Exactly. So much of stupid and harmful stuff done by men is taken as a general problem. School bullies? Men. Drunk people, shouting around at 3am, pissing in the streets and vandalizing? Men. I even had to visit the gym for 3 years to meet the first women in my life, moaning awkwardly and throw around the weights like a gorilla. Every week there was at least one man doing that.
@sakurasubnet @KaCi @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat
My own thoughts on this tell me that "patriarchy" is discriminatory. Not all men act so (although FAR TOO MANY do).
So I would choose not to use that word, but instead to refer specifically to those persons who (for example) treat women less well than they should. Or children. Or poor people. Or those whose skin is not 'white'...
Condemn the criminals by naming their crime(s), not their group(s)? So:
Misogyny is a crime! It must be opposed and stopped. The misogynists are the criminals!
Bullying and victimisation likewise. And so on... 😢
@PatternChaser
Am I allowed to challenge this point of view?
@sakurasubnet @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat
@KaCi @sakurasubnet @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat
Of course! That's the purpose of discussion, right? 👍
@PatternChaser
You are a pattern chaser. Systems are patterns. This is what I mean, when I talk about societal programming. Patriarchy, same as white supremacy is a system established over centuries by people in power to sustain their power. Some years ago, I read a tweet by a Black person saying that
“Racism aren’t the sharks, it’s the water.”
Same is true for patriarchy. As soon as we are born, we are influenced by these systems on a subconscious level. Media plays a huge role in that. The stories, the narratives that are told over and over in our society. The beautiful princess, the evil witch, the happy end. Misogyny, same as racism, neuronormativity, heteronormativity and so on are deeply ingrained into the systems we grow up in, they influence our access to education, medical treatment, housing, practically everything we are confronted with on a daily basis, what we need to survive.
Furthermore, they influence the way we think about ourselves, how we interact with each other, they create power dynamics in relationships, that we are not aware of as long as we don’t understand the systems behind it.
As long as you see the sharks, but not the water, the societal programming influences you on a subconscious level.
@sakurasubnet @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat
@KaCi @sakurasubnet @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat
Yes! For myself, I agree with every word you say (write). [Although I'm not 100% clear on the meaning of the sharks/water thing.] 👍
@PatternChaser @KaCi @Newstrujew @pathfinder @Aspiedan @forse @Laberpferd @rat It's a little bit like the actual meaning of acab. There are several police persons out there with good intentions and a good heart. The criticism of that phrase plays on the system level not the personal level. The role is problematic not the person itself - but the role affects your actions! Being feminist is being against the patriarchy, the system created by men, not being against men itself.
@sakurasubnet @PatternChaser
How I understood the analogy, it's also about the aspect of omnipresence. It's all around you, it's inside you, you can't escape it, just acknowledge it. I try to be more aware of the water inside me, not only of the sharks around me.
Forse (he/him)You seem to assume that "patriarchy" means "all men are bad" which... is very much not the case. =|
@forse Understood and agreed. 👍 But such words often move toward such meanings, sometimes confusing or compromising efforts to resist the thing in question. 👍
IMO, of course! 😀
@PatternChaser These words don't move by themselves.
They are moved by people who choose to use them in particular ways.
By saying that "patriarchy" is discriminatory towards men, in which direction are you moving it?