Thomas FuchsJun 7

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@thomasfuchs/116700754648719001

I got a lot of “but it’s business people making programmers do this”, implying that software engineers want to be ethical but can’t.

That’s the software engineers who just stole the term “engineer” from another profession that has very strict certification requirements including mandatory ethics classes.

Uwe KleinmannJun 7
Show threadThomas Fuchs
If as a programmer you never stand up and say “no” in order to protect users from unethical and harmful software you have failed at your job.
Jun 7 at 1:36pmWeb
Show threadThomas FuchsJun 7

And yes of course there’s situations in which standing up for what’s right could cost you your job.

That’s why you should fucking unionize.

Show threadThomas FuchsJun 7

So if you call yourself an “engineer” you better start acting like one.

</rant>

Show threadLeslie BurnsJun 8
@thomasfuchs See also "architect." 🙂
Show threadferne_papersJun 9
@thomasfuchs I feel mostly like this title's been foisted upon me. I did computer stuff for a living and the reality was I was called an engineer by other people and then expected not to act like one by the same other people.
Show threadjanusfox 🍅Jun 7

@thomasfuchs Collective bargaining isn't nearly as powerful for globalized jobs. There is no shortage today of cheap and willing software developers who can remotely ignore any scruple.

The only moral choice might be to thrive in a different industry. Software engineering is cooked, and this isn't a problem that will be solved by the people being cooked.

Show threadtom jenningsJun 7

@janusfox

Yeah but $you are responsible for $your own behavior. The world is not and never was fair.

In a context where you must do unethical things (define) to keep your job.... you dont have to keep the job.

Exceptions for starving etc all recognized and arent reponses.

@thomasfuchs

Show thread🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ Brie 🌞🚴📦✨Jun 9

@janusfox hello 👋🏻 Software developer for 5 years and then switched away. I still enjoy programming but I do it for me. My only regret with hindsight is that I could have stayed and agitated for unionizing

@thomasfuchs

Show threadStephJun 8
@thomasfuchs I don’t regret I did that - even without a union;
Show threadPete Prodoehl 🍕Jun 7
@thomasfuchs I believe the complete shit the www has become is due to people who never stood up for what was right.
Show threadAethelJun 7
@thomasfuchs i did. I got a payrise and got kicked out a month later (classic c-level forward thinking and planning). I am also unionised. Next time rather than speaking out ill just sit quietly hoping it all fucking burns down and drags us with it.
Show threadDavi OttenheimerJun 7

@thomasfuchs used to teach a course on this, and I'd give it around the world. For some reason one person, just one person, would stand up in class and answer that engineers shouldn't have to follow a code of ethics. Unlike any other engineering discipline, they thought software meant no standard of care about the world at all. The fact that this could even be an argument and not an automatic immediate loss of access to tools, says a lot about the industry.

https://www.flyingpenguin.com/2015-fachhochschule-st-polten-ethical-foundations-for-information-security/

Show threadTobiasJun 7
@thomasfuchs https://www.wolczko.com/3questions.pdf
Show threadThe DoctorJun 8
@thomasfuchs Astounding amounts of fail going on.
Show threadpoetasterJun 8
@thomasfuchs I never say no to my users. Sometimes I may say 'maybe' but never no.