TinaApr 25
Jon Worth

🆕 EU Longest Train Journey 🆕

Kemijärvi 🇫🇮 - Lagos 🇵🇹

🦅 Geodesic: 4088.33km
🛤️ Route-km: 6251.5km

⏱️Trip time: 87 hours 29 minutes
🚆Trains: 16
💶 Cost: around €400, with Interrail

All mapped and explained here 👇
https://eulongesttrainjourney.jonworth.eu

Apr 25 at 12:21pmWeb
Show threadJon WorthApr 25

To those going “but Helsinki - Lagos would be more route km!” I know. But it’s less, geodesic.

I can add loads of route km with via stations. So route km alone, on multiple trains, is not interesting.

You could have the most route km between two places in the EU *without* any extra via station. But you’d have nightmares calculating it on German branch lines.

Show threadJon WorthApr 25

Take this for example. The shortest Stockholm - Norrköping is via Nyköping

But all the long distance trains go the longer faster route via Katrineholm

So “no via - shortest route km” would have to cope with things like this

Show threadJon WorthApr 25
Also I have now explained why - even if, say, Helsinki - Lagos had more route-km than Kemijärvi - Lagos, I am not able to calculate it, and hence will stick to geodesic https://jonworth.eu/the-longest-train-journey-in-the-eu/#update-25-april-1630-but-helsinki-to-lagos-would-have-more-route-km
The longest train journey in the EU

Anyone who has been following my work for a while knows I have long had a rather abstract discussion about the definition of the World's Longest Train Journey. I started calculating this back in 2021, after an incorrect map on Reddit went viral, and have updated my thoughts about it

Jon Worth
Show threadFab AtaqeApr 25

@jon great read!

About the Helsinki-Lagos question: I thought about calculating the shortest route via brouter and blocking any track without passenger service one by one, letting brouter recalculate.
But one wouldn't be sure whether Helsinki and Lagos are the correct starting points to begin with.
Plus, stuff like the attached zig zag route will never be served. (From one of your routes)

Show threadMatZeApr 25
@jon love it!
Show threadJos GelukApr 25

@jon who is going to be the first person to do it?

Well, I can think of someone 😊

Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@josgeluk Some Youtuber I would wager.
Show threadGavinApr 25
@jon @josgeluk Mike Downie did it on his show, Downie Live (Downie Express on Nebula). https://nebula.tv/videos/downielive-taking-the-train-from-the-arctic-circle-to-africa-full-series/
DownieLive — Taking the TRAIN from the Arctic Circle to Africa - Full Series

I try taking the train from the Arctic Circle all the way to Africa. Which route? Whichever our phone says is the fastest route. There's just one rule: we cannot leave a country until we've eaten the national dish.

Nebula
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@gavin57 @josgeluk well no he didn’t. Because no train currently runs from Kemi to Haparanda. He did something vaguely similar.
Show threadShae ErissonApr 25
@jon @gavin57 @josgeluk lots of lovely bus lines between those two when I lived in Tornio
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@shapr @gavin57 @josgeluk which helps me how, given this is about the longest train ride in the EU! 😀
Show threadPepijnApr 25

Thanks for putting this all together. I wonder what the weakest point is. Maybe the Hamburg connection?

@jon

Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@Pepijn Something through Germany, yes. Or the Boden - Stockholm breaks down.
Show threadIndra Kupferschmid 💙💛Apr 26
@Pepijn @jon The very regularly cancelled Norrtåg between Haparanda and Boden
Show threadStefan LindbohmApr 25
@jon The two Atocha stations don’t even have an official transfer connection between them 😵‍💫. I should probably ask what is intended there because we don’t currently support a transfer between them at all.
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@stefanlindbohm DB Navigator does though. But they do have separate UIC codes, and it is a short walk, but Cercanias does not have bag scanners, the high speed does.
Show threadStefan LindbohmApr 25

@jon DB does a lot of manual entry/overrides on the data from other countries that are not published to third-parties by the other carriers. Check-in times for Eurostar missing is another example (and part of the reason we don’t yet sell Eurostar despite having ticketing access).

We’re basically redoing the work DB has done in their database on a case by case basis.

Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@stefanlindbohm It does some manual overrides on its OWN data too :-) (see the mess of connection times in Mannheim for example!)
Show threadStefan LindbohmApr 25
@jon If there’s one thing I’ve learned working with this it’s that you never run out of reasons to manually override some supposedly standardised data :D
Show threadJ—dVApr 25
@jon @stefanlindbohm I have made that exact transfer with packed bicycles. Although it leaves from a Cercanias platform ALVIAs are treated as high speed when it comes to rules like bicycles. (Not important in the grand scheme but annoying to me.)
Show threadRubenApr 25
@stefanlindbohm @jon why would you use cercanias if you can use Cuencanias?
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@ruben @stefanlindbohm ah that’s clever. But I think it won’t save any total time compared to Puertollano.
Show threadPerlPlayerApr 25
@jon it would take only 30h if it won't go through Germany 🤣
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@PerlPlayer Eh that is too nasty 😀 But it is there it is most likely to all go wrong!
Show threadPerlPlayerApr 25
@jon 😅
Show threadmalteApr 25
@jon Is Deutsche Bahn or German railways significantly worse than the rest of Europe?
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@malte Reliability is a real problem currently. This is not a PR or comms issue!
Show threadmalteApr 25
@jon I meant to write 'or', not pr! :)
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@malte Ah! In terms of reliability, yes it is. Major delays are common.
Show threadmalteApr 25
@jon Do you have a theory why? I wonder
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@malte Gerhard Schröder. Seriously. That was the point when investment flat lined, and passenger numbers rose and kept rising. And from that you get the mess you are in now!
Show threadmalteApr 25
@jon Sad how cuts can have effects such a long time after!
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@malte Yes, although governments in between could have seen what was happening, but did not, or did and did not think it was urgent enough to act. And so now we have this almighty mess.
Show threadTachibana KanadeApr 25
@jon If the two Madrid stations are considered separate just because the have different UIC codes, then the same logic would separate München Hbf from München Hbf Gleis 5–10, which would just be absurd.
Show threadJon WorthApr 25

@h0m54r München Hbf has 4 UIC codes, as does Paris Gare de Lyon... 😀

But we need some better definition than "it's the same building" I think!

Show threadStephenMApr 25
@jon In 1987 I did a trip like that except I started in Rome. But why stop in Finland? I remember continuing across to Narvik in Norway. Does that train no longer run?
Show threadJon WorthApr 25

@stgm Norway is not in the EU

And kindly, if you read the blog entry, Riksgränsen - the last Swedish station on the line to Narvik - is explained

Show threadTachibana KanadeApr 25
@jon A version of the route-km longest trip that might work is the pair of stations, connectable via scheduled rail service, where the shortest connection (without specifying any vias) is the longest. A first guess would be taking your final route and prepending the leg up from Helsinki. But it’s much harder to do an exhaustive search than geodesic distance, so I’m not about to start writing the article on that one!
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@h0m54r Yes, I see your point. That might somewhere in southern Finland or, I suppose, somewhere in Bulgaria maybe? But I agree it'd be hellish to calculate!
Show threadIgnas KielaApr 25
@jon @h0m54r RINF has line lengths in it, so maybe viable to do that way, but that likely wouldn't be a route viable with passenger trains
Show threadOliver BlanthornApr 25

@ignaloidas i think longest distance along route by sum of geodesic distance between all intermediate stops for the fastest route between two points would be feasible with a decent router

then maybe you could link that to RINF to get actual lengths but I'm not sure i would care (also, are the lengths actually lengths or are they just markers like in the UK?)

then the question is do you fix a departure time/day? because the longest fastest route will change quite a lot

@h0m54r @jon

Show threadIgnas KielaApr 25
@bovine3dom @h0m54r @jon as far as I can tell, actual lengths. I might look into pulling in the required data from RINF to see what's possible.
Show threadOliver BlanthornApr 25

@ignaloidas i tried to get some station data from them yesterday and found that my platform queries were no longer working

but maybe you'll have more luck https://github.com/bovine3dom/route_tchooseur/blob/master/query.sparql

@h0m54r @jon

route_tchooseur/query.sparql at master · bovine3dom/route_tchooseur

loading gauge data exp. Contribute to bovine3dom/route_tchooseur development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
Show threadIgnas KielaApr 25
@bovine3dom @h0m54r @jon there was a fairly big update at the start of the month, so that's probably the reason
Show threadOliver BlanthornApr 25
@ignaloidas this is why csvs are better
Show threadJon WorthApr 25

@h0m54r See this through Sweden for example: https://brouter.damsy.net/latest/#map=5/61.507/19.232/standard&lonlats=24.150406,65.827781;12.648657,55.630925&profile=rail

The shortest route-km Haparanda - København avoids Stockholm altogether

Trying to even route that way is going to be hellish to plan!

BRouter web client

Show threadTachibana KanadeApr 25
@jon That is quite a perverse outcome—I guess one might want to do it as end to end time, or total train minutes, with current timetables in that case? (I’d say “minimal possible train minutes on current infrastructure, but OpenRailRouting gives some really weird results when you try that.)
Show threadthem#ticApr 27
@h0m54r @jon I think Haparanda–Copenhagen is typically 25 hours and it includes lots of time in Stockholm. 🤷
Show threadJon WorthApr 27
@thematic @h0m54r or in Boden. Take your pick!
Show threadTonanio 🇪🇺 🇵🇹 🇺🇦 🇵🇱Apr 25
@jon If there's Internet and food, I'm in :)
Show threadVladimirNApr 25
@jon any cost ball park figure you'd share with us ? Did you run that travel or any of your friends/relatives ?
Interested genuine questions.
Thanks for the time.
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@VladimirN the post literally has a cost in it! 😀
Show threadVladimirNApr 25
@jon OUCH ! thanks for the lead as my eyes are weak.
I'm heading to your blog.
You're not answering my other question and looking at the comments, I understand it is a nope.
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@VladimirN it’ll only be possible from this summer onwards. I’m not personally planning on doing it. Not yet anyway.
Show threadGrumpyDad 🇺🇦🇵🇸Apr 25
@jon Wouldn't it be longer if you went from Helsinki though?
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@grumpydad read the blog post
Show threadGrumpyDad 🇺🇦🇵🇸Apr 25
@jon I started to, but my ADHD kicked in when I saw a squirrel 😄
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@grumpydad a reply to your point https://jonworth.eu/the-longest-train-journey-in-the-eu/#update-25-april-1630-but-helsinki-to-lagos-would-have-more-route-km
The longest train journey in the EU

Anyone who has been following my work for a while knows I have long had a rather abstract discussion about the definition of the World's Longest Train Journey. I started calculating this back in 2021, after an incorrect map on Reddit went viral, and have updated my thoughts about it

Jon Worth
Show threadJon WorthApr 25
@grumpydad basically: adding loads of via stations you can add up route km. The issue here is what two places furthest apart in the EU can be connected by train, and that’s Kemijärvi - Lagos
Show threadLeon BambrickApr 25
@jon Be sure to get on at the rear of the train and depart by the front of the train.