See, there's a bunch of different ways you can Do Solar, depending on how Into It you wanna get. I'm typically on the raccoon end of the spectrum y'know, scavenge parts and cobble together and try to do it all on the cheap, which would normally rule out the sort of all-in-one inverter/chargecontroller/battery devices that rich folk go for. These are devices where you literally just plug solar panels in, keep your voltage below the max, and it does it all for you with an app, you don't have to know anything.
But. Big part of my use case was, frankly, next time there's a massive storm and half my mates are without power for days at a time and they need their freezer to get cold and their phone to get hot, I wanna be able to chuck a thing in the car, wheel it over, give them a couple cycles and take it back to get charged up in the sun again, and that ain't happening with the sort of screwed-into-a-big-plywood-board system I'd initially been thinking about. Plus I'd saved some money on the actual panels by finding a bloke who's upgrading all his, so the panels I'm getting are gonna be big and old and heavy and blue and not very efficient for their size but very very very cheap.
So. Gulp.
Ecoflow Delta Pro Three
which coincidentally has the same number of words as Two Fucking Grand Christ
I got 8 solar panels today, gonna go back for the others tomorrow.
The panels were in the woods.
Just, like, big piles of them in the woods. Full of rain and leaves and twigs and creatures.
I mean I guess it makes sense and I don't know what I expected, these machines are weatherproof, they're meant to live outside.
Dude wasn't there when I turned up so I got the car ready and had a look around and got my meter on some wires and yup, they work. These mossy dirty sleeping machines in the woods are silently pushing electrons trying to find something to push them through, not asleep after all, just waiting.
I've never handled a solar panel meant for roof mounting before, only those like little portable camping jobs
These things aren't light and I've got stairs in front of my house, had to carry them up balanced on my head
Ready for a little sit down now
Solar update: still waiting for the battery to get here so there's no physical update, but here's minor emotional/noticing update.
1. People (who I know IRL in America and have talked to) generally don't think about kilowatt-hours. When folk look at their electric bill they think of nothing if they're rich and dollars if they're normal and kWh only comes onto the radar if they're having solarpunk thoughts. Nobody knows how much a particular appliance or device uses, people think that a server rack pulls more current than a kettle, this is an entirely normal way to live, the world is full of things and nobody has the spare brain cycles to notice this sort of thing until it comes up. I only notice it because It Came Up. So, a caution to those who might do this, It Will Come Up and then your brain will be filled with It whether you want it or not
2. Having solar panels lying around not hooked into anything is a special sort of liminal airport waiting purgatory because you go ALL THOSE LOVELY PHOTONS ARE JUST HITTING THE DAMN GROUND, look at that smug grass
I never mentioned how cheap these panels were. They're 240 watts each, 36V, from 2011 - more modern panels you can get twice the watts in the same space, and that's why this bloke had upgraded and was selling these ones for fifty bucks each cash. $45 to me 'cause I was cheeky enough to ask for a bulk discount.
19 cents a watt is hard to beat.
They still put out over 30v each even in woodsy-light where I checked them. Now that might drop like a rock the moment I get a load across them, they're 15 years old so some of their watts have probably run away by now, but even if these end up being like 25c a watt that's still pretty damn good
I did look into newer panels, you can get them for a great price but you've typically gotta buy ten at a time and shipping would be like $400
Neighbours could use your research and buying skills, maybe talk to them and arrange a double order with no shipping?
@ifixcoinops
> I did look into newer panels, you can get them for a great price but you've typically gotta buy ten at a time and shipping would be like $400
Meanwhile here in Germany 800W sets (including the inverter and mounting brackets etc) are typically like 250-300€ on Amazon and in hardware stores, but very often they're on sale for 200€. And from time to time they also pop up in regular supermarkets, also for 200€. So roughly the same price per watt as the ones from 2011 you've got, but with higher efficiency, and inverter thrown in, and none of the watts having ran away.
(The inverters in these sets are often limited to 800W, even when the panels themselves can be e.g. 2x 500W plus 2x 150W on the back side, because by law, you don't need any approvals to install balcony solar, and for feeding up to 800W into the grid, so 800W sets are the most popular.)
Open circuit voltage on a photovoltaic panel is not linearly dependent on irradiance, and not really a good metric, as you intuited.
Check the short-circuit current on them with a millivolt shunt, in full sun. That's a good basic measure of health.
I wonder how long it will take the seller to make his money back from their upgrade (assuming that the coming energy constriction does not become a discontinuity).
My neighbor just upgraded his panels to feed his hungry PowerWall.
@ifixcoinops You might actually be pleasantly surprised with how few of the watts went walkabout. When we bought this place it had an existing 2kW system on it that's old enough that the book for the inverter references Windows XP software to speak to it, and it only just this year stopped peaking at 2kW in full sun, but even then it's only down about 10% from rated power.
So if you're able to throw more panels at it to compensate (inverter spends longer at 100%), they basically last forever.
We learned it from you, Dad. We learned it from you.
I'm going to defend it though
..okay not the part where the tea bag is already in it
But in the US, boiling water in the microwave is probably the _most efficient_ method that the majority of people have access to!
@AinsleyLowbeer @ifixcoinops I haven't seen a normal kitchen microwave that took more than 15A * 120V, i.e. 1.8kW, i.e. the same as a kettle. It's convenient to heat the water in its cup, I suppose, but it's definitely not faster.
(Please don't microwave your tea, though.)
@ifixcoinops not to get too grim about it, but my dad lived through the last war in Western Europe in an occupied country.
Towards the end of the war, as the population were starved of food and electricity, my dad's family set up a bicycle on a stand in the house and family members took turns pedaling to provide some light after dark.
My dad told me he was stunned how much physical energy it took to provide a measly few watts of light. Everyone quickly agreed the light wasn't worth the effort.
That story has given me a very strong appreciation for just how much energy those of us living in rich countries in the 21st century use.
Those UK kettles you miss? I squeeze my toe gently on the accelerator of my electric car, and I draw ten times what each of those kettles draws.
@fluidlogic @ifixcoinops at least if that would happen again today, the led lights would be much easier to power from a bike...
But Oof, what a story. Ingenious too
@fluidlogic @sarajw @ifixcoinops
also storage batteries are much more affordable and have greatly improved over the years
This chap in SE England has been running bicycle powered sound systems and other such setups since late 1990s (and even those could keep a decent sound rig going) and is still around..
@vfrmedia oh that looks cool!
That image of the left behind, broken camping gear - I've only been to one big festival (think it was Leeds) and the wasteland with so much usable stuff left behind was crazy. I still have the sleeping bag I picked up on the way out amongst other things - brand new, it still had the shop price tag on it.
@sarajw @fluidlogic @ifixcoinops
the big festivals have tried to clean up their act but only after being exposed as to how bad things were getting.
I've met Nick and some of the rest of that crew over the years when I used to live in SE England - its interesting how they've pivoted from sound systems and lightshows to sewing machines (although this does make more sense and is an indication they are genuinely serious about sustainability / resillience)
@vfrmedia yeah interesting! Sounds like a good org whatever they're up to.
It was a great haul for me and the then boyfriend that morning. I was flabbergasted. After that I (by chance) only attended middle class things like Larmer Tree and Twinwood Festival, those are completely different animals.
@sarajw @fluidlogic @ifixcoinops it's kind of a mixed bag. The efficiency is higher for flourescent or LED bulbs, but there is a minimum voltage required, so the light just shuts off if you don't maintain high enough output (vs a dimming bulb with an incandescent). It's a classic physics demonstration https://youtu.be/OFeRppwCIbw
(Note that for demos, this wheel is *specifically* built for this purpose with many coils and magnets. A raccooned generator is likely to be less efficient at generating voltage and the human takes up the slack)

@ifixcoinops <pedantic>100W is roughly basal metabolic rate (i.e. 2,000 kcal/day is 97W), so your American kettle is actually eighteen guys sitting around contributing body heat (violating the second law of thermodynamics is left as an exercise). Vigorous exercise gets you up towards 500-600W, and so it's "only" three or four guys cranking on a stationary bike for four minutes to boil your liter of water.</pedantic>
Actually, if anyone has ever wondered why crowded spaces get hot and stuffy, it's in significant part because every single human body there is a 100W incandescent lightbulb's worth of heat.
@ifixcoinops @whbboyd Not for sustained periods of time, but for four minutes? Sure you can
I've hit 1kW while biking before, for short periods of time. I'm pretty sure you can have conversion losses under 10%
so it's not unreasonable that someone who cycles even semiregularly would be able to put out 600W of usable electrical power for a four minute period!
(Doing so on demand and without any sort of bodily damage is a different question :)
...though, elsewhere in thread an olympic cyclist is measured struggling to sustain 700W, so my numbers are probably optimistic.
Maybe 6 guys with 400W is more practical? 🤔
> 1kW
...for like five seconds, I don't know why I used that to even make ana rgument
"Well I'm weak so a somewhat stronger person 🤔"
such a bad argument,s orry :P

@ifixcoinops this is very connected to a thread I was partaking in yesterday:
https://mastodon.social/@urlyman/116385655062235770
Also I love the idea of the panels in the woods being like "hnnnggg" and not having anything to push their electrons into
@ifixcoinops Robert Förstemann lightly toasts a slice of bread:
Olympic Cyclist Vs. Toaster: Can He Power It?
https://youtu.be/S4O5voOCqAQ
