Mastodawn

GrapheneOS 1d ago

/e/ and Murena have been been promoting their products by misleading people about GrapheneOS for years. This has turned into an all out war on GrapheneOS by their company and supporters. We began regularly debunking their inaccurate claims and they try to frame it as aggression.

@GrapheneOS It's great you're taking time to clear up factually incorrect claims, whether they're made out of maliciousness or naivety. Constructive community engagement is great!

But please, for the love of god, this information only belongs A) in the threads where factually incorrect claims are being made and B) on your website in the FAQ section.

I know it's not intuitive, but pushing conflict into everyone's face again and again makes your project seem *less* trustworthy, not more.

GrapheneOS 1d ago

@tastyraspberry Replies to articles and posts are seen by far fewer than the original. The authors of these can also stop us from replying to them. It doesn't do much to address it and isn't an adequate approach. Our timeline reaches far more people and does far more to address these claims. They're posting about it in their main timelines and reaching large audiences of people who are being misled. Our users and supporters can post more about GrapheneOS and help defend the project too.

GrapheneOS 1d ago

@tastyraspberry Our posts are having the intended effect of addressing the inaccurate claims. We're aware it results in /e/ and Murena doubling down on attacks. We're also aware that it results in their supporters doubling down on attacks. These will be addressed with additional posts. They're on a sinking ship and they're misleading people about GrapheneOS far more desperately than they ever have before because of it. They do not have substance and they're losing the more they do this.

⠀ ⠀ ⠀ ⠀ stg 1d ago

@GrapheneOS @tastyraspberry have you guys considered putting all these debunks into a list on your website? fediverse is great for discovery in the moment but it sure makes trying to reference stuff hard

tastyraspberry 1d ago

@GrapheneOS
> We're aware it results in /e/ and Murena doubling down on attacks. We're also aware that it results in their supporters doubling down on attacks. These will be addressed with additional posts.

I.. don't know if attempting to fight fire with fire is a reasonable investment of the team's time. It's not your goal to find every instance of a false claim to debunk it, right?

tastyraspberry 1d ago

@GrapheneOS Most other organizations (Wikipedia, Signal..) respond to FUD or backlash by making a blog post. This is then shared by the org a few times on their socials, and community members will of course also use it to counter FUD/backlash in the relevant threads.

tastyraspberry 1d ago

@GrapheneOS If you must reply to individual threads yourself, you could probably save lots of time by having an evergreen section on your website dedicated to debunking FUD and just linking to that. There's little point in formulating individual responses on very similar topics repeatedly. Either a person is open to look at new information without prejudice, or they're not.

You have more important work to do.. and you know it :P

Not trying to be harsh, I want you guys to succeed!

GrapheneOS 1d ago

@tastyraspberry This is a microblogging platform. These are how we publish this form of content. We post longer form content as long posts on our forum where people can respond on the forum and we cross-post them here. We fully intend to do that as part of addressing this situation too.

@GrapheneOS @tastyraspberry i think micro is the keyword here that's being missed

HybridStaticAnimate 1d ago

@tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

Those who spread misinfo make individual posts and shove it in peoples faces. GOS is allowed to make posts about topics that pertain to them, especially if they are to point out harm and abuse.

the initra mf 1d ago

This!!!

I'd add that I've recently unfollowed GOS precisely because almost every single interaction of theirs seems to have been negative. Even if it's correcting misinformation.
Now every time I see a GOS toot I think to myself "great, GOS drama again." I don't need that in my life.

@[email protected]'s suggestions were on point. I suggest you take them to heart.

P.S.: thanks for making GOS :)
~happy GOS user

CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]

HybridStaticAnimate 1d ago

@me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

What a horribly apathetic thing to say. They wouldnt respond to abuse if they werent being abused.

@HybridStaticAnimate @me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

The same here, I only scroll my home feed till the first of 30 posts clarifying again that eOS is bad. This should be considered spam. I don’t even know what is GOS referencing at this point. Is it new eOS attack every time? Is their CEO constantly posting shit about GOS?

HybridStaticAnimate 1d ago

@dwaem @me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

Its really hard to cram technical refutation into Mastodons comically small default word limit, thats all.

GOS has long-form posts on Twitter. Mastodon should make an easy way to increase the limit.

A lot of projects do, unprovoked, make attacks at GOS. Its not drama or beef, its malice. This is what causes GOS to defend themselves. Its very unfortunate GOS is subjected to this abuse and it should stop.

the initra mf 1d ago

Mastodon is a microblogging platform so it somewhat makes sense for it to enforce a character limit. That being said, I agree that 500 characters is not a lot, especially for what GOS does.

Well, there are Mastodon forks, like glitch-soc or hometown, which do indeed have a modifiable character limit. And it seems that migrating to one isn't too difficult.
So there's a solution. Either GOS is unaware of it, or they chose not to go this route.

CC: @[email protected]

HybridStaticAnimate 1d ago

@me @GrapheneOS

They choose not to for various reasons including expanding trust and consuming more resources, and this method currently works anyway. But they would change it if Mastodon unified the value and made it easy to change.

Rihards Olups 1d ago

@HybridStaticAnimate @dwaem @me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS No need for longer posts on Mastodon, just have a blog post or several, link liberally.

HybridStaticAnimate 1d ago

@richlv @dwaem @me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

The issue is that puts the corrections and refutations in a place people are explicitly being conditioned to avoid with the misinformation. A mix of both a post on the GOS discussion forum and refutations on Mastodon seem to work the best. But writing up a huge response on the forum takes a lot of time, and many replies have to be context specific.

Rihards Olups 23h ago

@HybridStaticAnimate @dwaem @me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS No need for a huge post. If there was a smaller one that could be amended over time. A generic overview, that does not have to be context specific down to every last message somewhere.

HybridStaticAnimate 19h ago

@richlv @dwaem @me @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

Lying is so much easier than telling the truth. Its also easier to trick someone than to convince them they have been tricked. Large posts are needed because much of what GrapheneOS does is very technical and/or very involved, on the tech side, or an issue needing a ton of context and evidence on the community/social side. There isnt much of a choice other than huge post.

the initra mf 1d ago

I don’t even know what is GOS referencing at this point.
Exactly! It's hard to find the source of the issue amongst the tens (if not hundreds) of toots which all sound like "We are being attacked," "$PROJECT has worse security than GOS," etc.
Every time I encounter GOS on my feed it's like I'm dropped into a live battleground. TwT

Perhaps a FAQ site/thread on the forum could go a long way in making it easier to grasp the situation? Instead of writing 10 posts in response, you write one and attach a link to the site/forum.
That way, people could stay informed, and actually useful information would not be lost in the shit storm.

CC: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]

Rihards Olups 1d ago

@me @dwaem @HybridStaticAnimate @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS Same. This pops up frequently. No clue what’s going on. No links to articles like Signal does or FAQ.
Nothing learned, a bit of time wasted.

HybridStaticAnimate 1d ago

@richlv @me @dwaem @tastyraspberry @GrapheneOS

GOS regularly posts evidence with their claims.

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116388159407099477

Heres more info.

GrapheneOS (@[email protected])

/e/ and Murena have been been promoting their products by misleading people about GrapheneOS for years. This has turned into an all out war on GrapheneOS by their company and supporters. We began regularly debunking their inaccurate claims and they try to frame it as aggression.

GrapheneOS Mastodon