I HAVE NO TAIL AND I MUST WAGWild how every community that takes accusations of being an echo chamber seriously ends up turning into a right wing echo chamber. Wonder what that’s all about.
Anyway, conservative viewpoints can never, under any circumstances, be tolerated in a place where the baseline ideal is inclusivity. They’ve shown *without fail* that they’re hostile to civil discourse to the point of being incompatible with it at a basic, fundamental level.
When you allow conservatives into a space, what happens is marginalized people get harassed out of the space, all debate becomes a combination of bad faith trolling and outright lying, and everyone’s timeline gets inundated with Nazi shit.
Everyone here has watched this exact thing happen elsewhere before. No one with a working bullshit detector is buying it.
Jess👾@MxSadie Plus overall, the left spends FAR more time and effort and energy into knowing and trying to understand the right than the right EVER does to the left.
When have you EVER heard a right wing space have a debate about how they need to invite and welcome more leftists into their space in order to "hear both sides" for anything other than having a token quisling liberal to gang up on and dunk on?
ChloChloaca@MxSadie in the spaces I moderate, I have never experienced a *single* conservative who was there in good faith. ESPECIALLY the sealioning ones.
"Oh I just want to understand!" No you don't. You just want to annoy people into yelling at you so you can call them unreasonable.
But by removing them from the space, guess what happens? Civil discourse and happier subscribers! Amazing!
@CordiallyChloe Yeah, like, it’s wild how much better social media is without them. It’s like, actually usable and I don’t have random hate in my comments all the time.
@MxSadie @CordiallyChloe Plus, in all the times I've tried to engage self proclaimed conservatives in a good faith discussion on the internet, almost always neither of us walk away actually having come to a better understanding of one another. There are times in discussion with moderates and liberals that we can walk away having come to a better mutual understanding of one another. But someone who calls themselves conservative? The venn diagrams just don't seem to overlap on anything.
@JessTheUnstill @CordiallyChloe Yeah, I rarely find myself anything other than infuriated by how senselessly violent conservative ideology is. We can’t ever reach an understanding because what they want is explicitly and intentionally at our expense.
They have such vastly different views of the world that they aren't even living in reality anymore. And when someone doesn't live in reality, you have to peel back the surface of that onion and show them reality before you can actually talk about the topic at hand.
Like when a conservative says "kids think they're animals," you then need to walk back to the fact that this isn't even true at its most basic level and explain why there's litter boxes in classrooms in the first place. And then, if you can get them to process that (and not look at you like you have 3 heads, like most of them seem to do), THEN you can talk about trans people.
@CordiallyChloe @MxSadie At most I can find common cause with conservatives who bend (little l) libertarian on the sorts of things like "okay we may disagree about trans people, but we can agree that it's none of the governments' business to try and send cops to check people's genitals".
Kevin Karhan
⠠⠵ avukoExactly this.
I keep coming back to Wilhoit's law the last couple of days:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Allowing conservatives to flood into our spaces would turn this “echo chamber” into another cesspool real quick.
I don’t want to drown in their shit. Not again.
Marianne@MxSadie the right is the echoiest chamber but people only ever seem to turn it on people who tell them to fuck off, as an insult.
No, I don't want their voices going around my spaces. It hurts people. Conservatives hate thinking and only want to hear things that back up what they already feel. They actively work to cultivate that, a low-thought, low-information space.
Leftism etc isn't perfect by any means, but it's more curious. And less echoey in ways that matter.
The Doctor@MxSadie You can even put money on it and come out ahead.
Rycochet@MxSadie Apparently we're only allowed to go to the one stall in the Marketplace of Ideas, the one selling long since debunked flavours of Neoliberalism and Fascism, where the staff are openly abusive about the customers and keep on selling the failed, hateful ideas of the 20th century.
WhichOne'sPink 🇫🇮@MxSadie As somebody else here said; "I'm aware of nazi bullshit. It's garbage. And I don't need it in my feed". (Paraphrased).
Daughter of DiscordLiberals are Bush Jr. conservatives now. You should see how middle class white liberals treat marginalized and leftwing folks on Bluesky. It's horrifying.
bovaz@MxSadie it's exhausting how often this has to be repeated, and how often people who aren't on the right, but have been lucky enough to not even see this happen, will think along the lines of "this time it's different".
@bovaz Yeah, it’s never different. We’ve been this over and over again. Why would we ever expect the results to be different at this point?
@MxSadie barring those with vested self-serving interest in this, I think some of it is due to the fact that they may have met someone who claimed to be right-wing because of specific topics/ideas, and got better when a wider context was shown or explained to them.
But this misses (among other things) the critical point that online it's never just one dude venting, but a whole army of people and bots, who can "support" each other in being awful, and who are backed by a lot of money.
Moreover, this doesn't excuse from listening to the people who have witnessed, or have been through, these dynamics already. And this step (listening and accepting other people experience) is crucial, and something I would expect to not need explaining.
But this misses (among other things) the critical point that online it's never just one dude venting, but a whole army of people and bots, who can "support" each other in being awful, and who are backed by a lot of money.
Moreover, this doesn't excuse from listening to the people who have witnessed, or have been through, these dynamics already. And this step (listening and accepting other people experience) is crucial, and something I would expect to not need explaining.