Daniel AppelquistIf AI is so great, why does it always seem to be on the side of fascism? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yj97yd6v5o
Marijn@torgo Don't ascribe it agency. It's not on any side, it's spitting out what it's asked to spit out. And the fascists are, unsurprisingly, the group most enthusiastic about the idea of automated lie machines.
MycotropicI'd say also that fascism is baked into LLMs not by design or bad faith programming, rather by the basic nature of a neural network/LLM. It's designed to summarize, simplify and return generalizations based on weights. Semantic ablation is a feature not a bug and fascism is an intrinsically simplistic way to classify; us/them, good/bad, right/wrong it fits in perfectly with simplifying and summarizing.
The Frog
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC@Lily_and_frog @torgo I absolutely love AI as a research field in CS, but I despise the AI business. Capitalism in general is just a cancer of the economy which is killing our civilisation, fascism is just what capitalism turns to when a significant number of the rich have outgrown liberal democracy and want to rule the world without facing personal consequences, and businesses always use automation where the human workers are too expensive or too fickle and unruly. Automating the production of propaganda is a huge step forward for all the authoritarian systems in the world, but the technology itself is just that, technology. You can use a hammer to drive a nail into a plank, but you can also use it to nail a man to a piece of wood and let him hang there until he dies.
Besides, what's marketed as "AI" is but a tiny sliver of actual AI R&D. It's all just Deep Learning, the most popular incarnation of Machine Learning, and even then mostly four kinds of models: Diffusion models (mostly for image generators, but sometimes also for 3D objects or sounds), transformers (LLMs, chatbots, agents), GANs, world models (video generators, self-driving cars). Much of it isn't really ready for production but is being pushed anyway because the investors have sunk so much money into it all that they need to see some returns.
Besides, what's marketed as "AI" is but a tiny sliver of actual AI R&D. It's all just Deep Learning, the most popular incarnation of Machine Learning, and even then mostly four kinds of models: Diffusion models (mostly for image generators, but sometimes also for 3D objects or sounds), transformers (LLMs, chatbots, agents), GANs, world models (video generators, self-driving cars). Much of it isn't really ready for production but is being pushed anyway because the investors have sunk so much money into it all that they need to see some returns.
Isaac Ji Kuo@torgo Quintessentially, it's because it is against the side of truth, and truth has a well known anti-fascist bias.
Perhaps the most important consequence of this is that the people developing and owning big money scam AI garbage tend to be anti-truth, and thus tend to NOT be anti-fascist. And thus, tend to be fascist themselves.
Not that there are lots of billionaire techbros that aren't fascist garbage already.
Joachim Wiberg@torgo is not great, obviously. But allow me to point out an obvious little thing here – just about any technology can be used for evil. This has been a fact since the invention of fire, or the wheel.
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIESof course but the bulk of AI out of the gate is plutocrat political and economic agendas
so the theoretical observation that any technology can be used for good or evil has no meaning
the realistic observation is that AI as it exists today is a plutocrat tool to our detriment
until that changes, AI is shit
ignoring the reality to allude to some theoretical possibility is not accurate
@benroyce wow, that’s a very black or white attitude. Although I’m on your side ideologically, I’m thankful it’s not people like yourself that brought us out of the dark ages.
AI is useful and it’s a tool like anything else. Yes, we’ve tried to abolish and stop people from using and even knowing about science and tools before. Remember what happened? We learned that it’s the ideas and values that make us what we are.
joachim:
you're not stupid. you understand the bulk of AI is plutocrat controlled and malicious in intent
you can castigate me all you want. for the crime of what? understanding the real problem?
all that is revealed is that your naivete or willful dishonesty about the dominant problem with AI is profound
why would you do that? do you think people can't see what you're doing? that's embarrassing. do you not see what you're doing? that's far more embarrassing
@benroyce honey,
Get real. You are generalising to bring home what you think is the point. Yet you’re talking about explosives and the theory of nuclear physics in terms of good or bad. That’s what it looks like from the outside, and it’s not looking good.
I’m sorry, but this is where I’m getting off. This is a polarising issue and it’s blinding a lot of people. Take care.
you insist that AI can do good, which i have already acknowledged
that's not the point
the dominant issue with AI is its plutocrat control
by me making this observation to you, you get upset
😂
for my simple true observation, you experience an emotional point of departure?
that's ridiculous
and, i'm sorry (well, not really), it's kind of funny
you're not a serious person on this topic joachim
you tell me to a plastic "take care", i tell you stop being a fucking clown
you are right
theoretically
i point out that the dominant use of AI is malice by plutocracy
you suddenly get very emotional about that
which strikes me as quite absurd
why is it so emotional for you?
do you understand the difference between a theoretical observation and a reality as it currently exists?
if you do, it's very cut and dry. it's not emotional
people despise AI because of its current implementation
that's valid
why does that bother you so?
@benroyce what bothers me is nothing emotional but the black and whiteness of it all. You speak in general terms yet the questions you point out are specific, that’s all I’m talking about.
It may look superficial, but when “genai” is in the hands of everyone it will not be the same, right? All I’m saying is be vary of your choice of words. History has a way of catching up with you. @torgo
"but when “genai” is in the hands of everyone it will not be the same, right"
when guns are only in the hands of good people, we'll have peace forever
when nuclear is only in the hands of scientists, we'll have free power and no bombs
when fire is in the hands of cooks and not arsonists we'll have nirvana
etc, etc
i don't understand you joachim
you only value airhead kumbaya pablum and get emotional when someone tries to point out simple braindead obvious reality to you
@benroyce that’s quite enough! You’re misquoting me to win a simple point. I’m starting to see what kind of person you are, and it’s not looking great.
Why are you behaving so badly? I’ve really been trying to give you a fair ground here, yet you seem determined to destroy my character.
This is fine. We don’t share the same cultural context so weird things like “guns in the hand of good people” sticks more to you than me. Sorry about that, cheap shot, but hey you started it.
joachim:
i simply responded to your truthful observation, *which i acknowledged and agreed with*, to simply point out the current reality of AI is shit, which is absolutely true, and is why people hate AI
there's nothing wrong with my response, and it was respectful
it's not respectful anymore joachim
because i see now you are an absurd emotional clown on this topic
carry on as you will, a not serious person, and remain unimpactful on this topic as you are
what a farce
@benroyce oh dear lord, I’ve never in my life seen anything as disrespectful as this. So well done, I guess.
You can go on pretending to be ignorant to what’s happening. Development and progress, be it in the hands of the oligarchy or the workers. In this context you’ve obviously lost it.
Respectfully, Troglobit ✊
Disrespectfully: Ben Royce
Please pay attention to and address the reality of a topic and deemphasize your airhead fantasy life. Or remain an unserious person. Your choice. It's just all rather embarrassing
@benroyce we are obviously not living in the same time frame or reality. I’m sorry to hear of your early onset issues and am wishing you a swift recovery. ❤️🩹
And there's the inevitable block. Hallelujah
And the fucking clown thinks they are talking about reality 🤣
And then the fake plastic concern for my well being while the clown gets absurdly emotional over a rather cut and dry issue 😂
It's great entertainment at least 🍿
jablkoziemne@troglobit @benroyce @torgo I thought when you wrote "I’m sorry, but this is where I’m getting off." you would stop replying in this thread.
@jablkoziemne @troglobit @torgo
the contrast between word and behavior makes sense for a rational person
but perhaps for a chatbot the phrase at hand is just another probabilistically determined markov chain word salad having been trained on people arguing pointlessly
Dave
cuan_knaggs@torgo but don't you know, that's what's so great about it. when your project is to destroy democracy having a tool to 10x the fash is really handy
derptron
Scale TheoryAI and alternative reality from billionaires is really, extremely bad and needs to be rethought and regulated.
Regulations force bad people to do good for society.
Why else deregulate as they have? Bad people will always be bad until they're eliminated from doing harm.
That's a reagan thing across my 60 years. He gave speeches accusing the government of pretty much criminal inefficiency and framed it as misuse of tax dollars. People bought it and didn't mind when they were made less safe by cutting the workforce and deregulation. Conservatives, who by nature didn't trust any government other than the local one, latched onto the mantra that deregulation and less federal oversight improved the public sector since "capitalism always arrives at an efficient use of money" and #Trickledown was born.
Of course the reality is that Well Regulated Capitalism can be manipulated into actually helping people while the fucking wild wild West of Unregulated Capitalism only benefits the capitalist personally. Especially when you maximize the system for sociopathic behavior which brought us the Robber Barons, Musk, Gates and Bezos. Wealth doesn't trickle down, it accumulates. That's all.
Mx. Aria Stewart@torgo This is a great question to take seriously and actually try to answer.
Emma needs ☕️ and paying work@aredridel @torgo there's already a lot of discussion on this and Timnit Gebru and Émile P. Torres' paper is a good place to start - https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/13636
@emma always is a key piece of this imo
David Soria Parra@torgo because you are cherry picking. There is plenty of positive impact like https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-025-04176-7 and lots of others. As with every technology there will be horrible use and we have to go and fix that as providers and as policies. Generalization here doesn’t help.
An LLM chatbot to facilitate primary-to-specialist care transitions: a randomized controlled trial - Nature Medicine
In a trial involving 2,069 patients and 111 clinicians across 24 disciplines, patients performing a preconsultation session with an LLM-powered chatbot had a significantly lower consultation time and both patients and clinicians reported improved communication and satisfaction.
@dsp I was being overly broad, I grant you. And I do acknowledge that there are positive impact use cases for Gen-AI. But, when it comes to Gen-AI created images or video, I have yet to encounter such a use case, whereas there is a laundry list of use cases that are actively harmful to society.
@torgo I tend to agree. Image gen so far seems to have been more on negative side.
of course you can use AI for good. but AI as it is is VC funded and plutocrat controlled
so it pushes plutocrat political and economic agendas to our detriment
the issue is not that we don't recognize the positive potential of a technology. every technology *can* have a positive impact, that's braindead obvious and thus without merit as an observation
the problem is you don't acknowledge the bulk of AI is used for bigotry and fascism
until that changes, like crypto, AI is shit
AT Hayes@benroyce @dsp @torgo Curious about open LLM models that people can keep on their own equipment and use personally; trained on open data, and not snooping on everyone’s activity, as mentioned in articles like this: https://www.techdirt.com/2026/03/25/ai-might-be-our-best-shot-at-taking-back-the-open-web/
Is there enough will and talent to pull our information, social media, and even these away from corporate silos?
tall one
CLT/Linux 
Nathan Salwen@torgo Because billionaires are fascist.
Em 
stux⚡️
Paul SomeoneElseThey are both status quo amplifiers.
GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺@torgo This is, in fact, what the billionaires making money out of it find great about it.
J$
Chris L
Miss GayleBecause AI doesn't "think," it just regurgitates whatever material was put into it. The material determines the outcome. And we all know what side the tech-bros are on. So nothing AI does is trustworthy. Everything from history to current events to finances...anything at all you ask it is going to be what the tech-bros want you to see, not the objective reality.
@torgo bunch of 'gods' here on social media deciding what is good and what is wrong
Sitting at home, having a sip of coffee, seeing some company's ceo on tv, who might have worked day and night to reach there, these 'gods' go: "hmm, I don't like it. Why are they ceo? Why are they earning more than me? I don't like it" or "why is this guy using machines in his company? It's 'his' company but I say he employee humans, so he should! I don't like it"
That's your comment area, in summary
@torgo People here has reached such high level of understanding that they have known each every thing. They are predicting things that no one with best of the knowledge is able to. They are validating things. And deciding what is good and what is bad.
Even after being in tech field I am unable to say things for sure but out here people are giving verdict left and right
To people against AI and tech people: no one takes you seriously only because you people speak with no information. Know first
Ted LemonOne unfortunate observation is that enough people are deciding what to think based on conversations with LLMs that the answer to this question is extremely important.
A second is that it's often the people who are not fascists who also don't want their work used to train the models. This is exploitable, and it's being exploited.
So this question should be seen as a call to action more than a refutation of the value of AI, true though that second interpretation may be.
Brandon@torgo because we let fascists use it? @lisamelton
condret 
Chip Butty@torgo form follows funding (so, the owners)