@wdlindsy

> Nearly half of men believe they could land a passenger jet with zero training.

Hahaha.

They should try once in a realistic flight simulator to only land a small, single engine propeller plane.

It's an eye-opener.

What I learn from this (and what is the fundamental underlying problem) that a lot of people (likely most of them male) believe they can do a lot of things they have zero experience with.

Maybe it's the Dunning-Kruger effect hard at work.

Plus, also maybe, the peculiar aspect of male socialization by which you ground your self esteem and perceived value for others on what you can do.

Which now surprisingly lead me to the question: Perhaps this particular facet is actually an effect of an utilitarian capitalist system which couples value with skills and performance.

@wdlindsy

I perhaps translated not quite right from my native language. What I meant to say:

The male self image is centered around "what I am able to do". My hypothesis: This (while it has largely become a goal in itself) might have its root in the "traditional" role as breadwinner for the family. Their worth for their family ("what I can give") stems from what they are able to do / achieve.

That's all no justification. Especially not for lying to yourself about your abilities.

And we (as a society, but especially mal subculture) should have abandoned this way of thinking ("breadwinner") long ago, not only because of #patriarchy.

But I am looking for systemic root causes beyond ---let me employ a bit a of hyperbole (my apologies for this already) --- beyond "they're male, so mentally impaired, no other explanation needed".

Which seems where a substantial fraction of discussions on these type of problems seem to end up on social media.

As an accurate statement of symptoms it's enough, I agree. For me though, then pretty soon comes the question of the root causes.

It make a difference, if we think the current state of affairs is (a) biologically unavoidable, (b) a male sub-cultural problem (c) a larger system problem that leaves this problem in male subculture, or (d) something else.

@wdlindsy

> blinding entitlement.

In this context --- overestimating one's abilities --- I'd also question the use of the term "entitlement". Are they entitled to land a passenger plane? Doesn't sound like the right way to phrase this.

I suggest we have two different phenomena here: Entitlement (another topic) and this totally overestimating their skills and abilities.

Which both stem from how males are socialized in their male sub-culture, but might have a different root cause (a culture is never based on just one tenet and a lot of them are implied).

Of course, it CAN all be subsumed unter "it's those males again", but this doesn't help much towards understanding it. If one is still in the phase of establishing that the status quo is like it is, yes, then not more is needed.