@Netraven @mcnado

yeah but despite all of the shadow money we can still vote

especially in the primaries coming up

so many elections are decided by such a small percentage

and such a large percentage don't vote

yeah not all of them are leftists but if leftists did show up imagine the difference

the problem is this sort of mindless cynicism, that something is inevitable. it's not

vote, assholes

why would anyone give dark money what it wants by not voting?

@Pine_Affinity @Netraven @mcnado

you don't vote for them

you show up in the primaries and you replace them

the problem is this "dems suck" whine then people don't show up in the primaries out of useless pathetic indolence. so nothing changes

@Pine_Affinity @Netraven @mcnado

this is an inversion of responsibility

if you vote, the party answers to you

if you don't vote, the party answers to dark money and spineless centrists who do vote

if we vote, we may fail. if we don't vote, we *will* fail. so why would you want to define your political consciousness as acceptance of fascism? you understand that is what your cynical "unlikely" is about right? cynicism is acceptance. do you accept fascism? i don't think so. so vote

@Pine_Affinity @Netraven @mcnado

by voting

sitting back and passing your responsibility to dem leadership to magically change is absurdity

i am confused why you think that's a valid position

you mob the primaries, you replace them

proof it works?

mamdani

dem centrists opposed him every step of the way. and yet he won

how?

because people showed the fuck up

you have to change the way you think about the problem

don't depend upon assholes who will never change to change

vote

Asking them to eject a leader who illegally and unconditionally supports a genocidal nation is wanting magic?

This should be the bare minimum to exist as a political party much less a human being.

@benroyce @Netraven @mcnado

@Pine_Affinity @Netraven @mcnado

if no one on the left shows up, spineless corporatist dems win, because spineless corporatist dems show up to vote

but what you are saying is you want people you know are rotten to the core to suddenly and magically grow a conscience and resign?

rather than, you know, just getting off your ass and voting them out?

that's the way it works

why would you argue against the only way to remove them, and argue for a behavior which ensures their continuing power?

Because that doesn’t work.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/chuck-schumer-resign-democrats-b2720088.html

@benroyce @Netraven @mcnado

It’s like brainwashing. We’ve been voting for ‘the best possible’ Dem candidates for decades and it brought us to this exact moment.

@JakeKb @benroyce @Netraven @mcnado

@Pine_Affinity

No
Factually and historically false.

We got here BECAUSE "didn't vote" is the largest bloc, and instead of leaning in to bends things positive, they stood back and just let the Right snatch the victory, over, and over, and over, and over again

We got here because people who could have helped prevent Citizens United, didn't

@JakeKb @benroyce @Netraven @mcnado

@screwturn @Pine_Affinity @JakeKb @benroyce @Netraven @mcnado
Sorry, but I lay this at the feet of Democratic politicians. They decided that they wanted votes from conservative voters and did not want votes from liberal voters.

The conservative voters did not vote for them because they have been brainwashed to believe that all Dems are demons.

The liberal voters didn't vote because they knew Dem politicians would do what conservative voters want, but not what they wanted.

If the Dems wanted votes from liberal voters, they would have done liberal things.

@Tofu_Golem @screwturn @Pine_Affinity @JakeKb @Netraven @mcnado

nope

if you show up, especially in the primaries, you get the candidates you want

if you don't, you don't

bad candidates do not cause lack of voting

lack of voting causes bad candidates

you have the cause and effect reversed and are abrogating a simple effort to make your will known. and for what? ego masturbation over toxic idealism?

not voting is monumentally stupid, and is the cause of our problems as much as MAGA

@benroyce @screwturn @Pine_Affinity @JakeKb @Netraven @mcnado
Ah yes.

That bit of magical thinking.

We've been over this before.

If both parties only want votes from conservative voters, and neither party wants votes from liberal voters, there isn't a damn thing liberal voters can do.

Voting for conservative candidates will not cause them to suddenly behave like liberals. That is not how democracy works.

If Dem politicians wanted votes from liberal voters, they would do liberal things.

They do not, and you cannot blame the voters.

Blame the corrupt campaign finance system that causes both parties to pursue the same set of voters.

@Tofu_Golem @screwturn @Pine_Affinity @JakeKb @Netraven @mcnado

"If both parties only want"

what is this bullshit?

who fucking gives a shit what they want. it's a red herring

did you forget the lesson of mamdani?

centrists opposed him in the primaries

people showed up and voted for him

centrists opposed him in the general

people showed up and voted for him

you just fucking vote

"but centrists-"

who fucking gives a shit

all you're saying is you have an unhealthy, pointless obsession

@benroyce @screwturn @Pine_Affinity @JakeKb @Netraven @mcnado
Yes. We can get a few through from time to time, and that's great.

The primaries are a good time to try and make a difference. I'll agree with you there.

But showing up for the general when there are no good candidates in most elections?

That's a loser's game.

The establishment Dems have made it clear that they don't want our votes, so they shouldn't complain when we stay home on election day in the general election.

They knew damn well that their position on Israel cost them the 2024 election, AND THEY ARE STILL SUPPORTING ISRAEL. They know damn well that their support of Israel will cost them even more in future elections, and they will not stop doing it, and every time you blame the voters for that, you are providing cover for them.