ltning
trashHeap 
@ltning YEAH, im dissapointed and raged about it for a few days. KINDA a big reversal from what was telegraphed at last BSDCan.
Graham Perrin@ltning breathe.
@trashheap why fan the flames here, when you're aware of @dch <https://bsd.network/@dch/116284135261206411>?
dch 
@trashheap I keep saying this “we haven’t made a decision on this yet” quote me please. But we are working towards this! @ltning
@grahamperrin @dch @ltning I am not trying to "fan flames" so to speak, but perhaps I did overstate.
It HOWEVER does seems accurate to say things have drifted quite a bit from what was discussed at the last BSD Core Team update https://youtu.be/tUmeRqzczhA?si=5X5F8y-3wx28__9W
https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/commit/6495dafd58b94a44fc9bc966ef47d6bc6916f5b9
AND I do feel like I should be allowed to express my disappointment at such events, while not being accused of causing an unnecessary panic.
LLM code IS being accepted today.
Core Team Update June 2025 FreeBSD Developer Summit
@trashheap the relevant upstream PR: <https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/18255>.
Clemens Fruhwirth describes himself: <https://clemens.endorphin.org/p/about-me.html>.
range_tree: use zfs_panic_recover() for partial-overlap remove by clefru · Pull Request #18255 · openzfs/zfs
Motivation and Context The change is primarily motivated by #13483 (comment) zfs_range_tree_remove_impl() used a bare panic() when a segment to be removed was not completely overlapped by an existi...
@grahamperrin As I said elsewhere, I don't care what people use FreeBSD for. I also cannot afford to care about, say, how someone finds bugs. But I do care about who writes the code that goes into it.
There are legitimate uses for LLM technology. Analyzing code (finding bugs) may be among them, but the ethical issues remain and largely renders that a theoretical possibility.
I await the next step in this saga, and it may very well influence my personal (and professional) future much more than I would like.
@dch Thanks for working on this. It cannot be easy.
Cc @trashheap
@ltning I added information about Clemens Fruhwirth a few seconds before your post.
@trashheap also, <https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mpelrz/comment/nk0m7bg/> suggests a point on the timeline of the recording.
@grahamperrin @dch @ltning I have been telling folks here in mastodon and in real life, for months about #FreeBSD's draft policy against LLM code contribution. I resumed using FreeBSD after having spent years away, due in large part to positive indicators like that.
AND in the past couple days multiple FreeBSD committers have alternatively told me "no decision has been made" or discussed at length in replies of how soon LLM in code reviews by some members will be done, and describing generative AI in floss as an arms race that FreeBSD cannot afford to loose out in.
FreeBSD has already made one popular list of FLOSS software accepting LLM code. (Rightly or wrongly).
I am frustrated that there is no clear communication on this point to the "people in the pews" who are concerned about this; and a little tired of feeling like people are telling me I am wrong for expressing my disappointment, in the midst of this chaos.
Users are trying to figure out how to keep their software stack slop free today.
@trashheap I see no chaos.
@grahamperrin Chaos being short for:
A lack of clear public messaging, and different freebsd committers seemingly telegraphing very different realities on the ground.
that's not chaotic.
Agree to disagree. It certainly feels that way with all the folks replying to me lately.
AND again thanks for telling me how to feel about this.
Jay 🚩 
@trashheap @grahamperrin I don't know about #FreeBSD but #NetBSD has policy of not accepting AI/LLM generated code
@jaypatelani @grahamperrin I am aware, plotting on moving some machines over to NetBSD because of it.
@trashheap @grahamperrin I am planning to move to NetBSD + @E complete BSD setup next year. Currently busy with family responsibilities :)
@jaypatelani is the move AI-related, or coincidental?
@jaypatelani @E Has enlightenment taken a stand against LLM code? Or you just like the cut of their jib?
I ask mostly because ive been on the lookout for desktop environment which have; but Pantheon is the only one I know of which has.
RE: https://tech.lgbt/@trashheap/116312186407025688
@trashheap no.
I never told you how to feel.
You want to express yourself, you do.
I want to express myself, I do.
ben@grahamperrin @trashheap I think it’s a good thing if committers don’t all have the same opinion on everything, of course.
But if several different people seem to be presenting their conflicting opinions as representative of the project that seems less than ideal.
(Of course it depends. Sometimes people are unfairly interpreted as speaking for a project through no fault of their own. Sometimes people allow that ambiguity on purpose. And sometimes people might believe their opinion is representative when it isn’t. I can’t say which is true here.)
Anthony Sorace@dch As a FreeBSD user since the late 1900s, managing servers for both personal projects and clients, as well as my laptop, I feel very invested in this. Unfortunately, it also feels like core@ and the Foundation haven’t done a great job of providing a way for interested parties to provide meaningful input here. Despite long use of the system, I’ve never cultivated connections with folks in “management”, largely because I’ve always been pretty satisfied with both the process and outcome as-is.
@dch I deeply respect the need to take a deliberative, considered approach. But when the reality in the meantime seems to default to “accept”, it gets more and more concerning the longer it goes on.
I have zero interest in flaming anyone. But what is the most productive way for me, as a personal and professional user of the system for 30+ years, to communicate to core@ and the Foundation the effect this will have on my use and support of the system, and what I’ve heard from others like me?