forestine

eta: thanks, i ended up suggesting DeltaChat, but leaving this thread open if other people are looking

hi can someone tell me how to either use signal without ever using a phone or another encrypted messaging service that doesn't require a phone?

note to the linux people that this is for someone who is dealing with meta removing encryption, it can't be too difficult

Mar 25 at 3:30pmWeb
Show threadforestine4d ago
(not for me, for someone who asked me)
Show threadforestine4d ago
a friend not in this thread suggested one called Session which began as a fork of signal. it doesn't need phone number OR email and collects even less metadata than Delta so that's one to note
Show threadA cool crab wearing shades4d ago
@forestine I had signed up using a free google voice number and used it entirely on desktop at first. I don't know if google still does the free tier but any virtual number where you can receive a text message will work.
Show threadjordan4d ago

@forestine you can't use Signal without a phone number, either you verify via text or you verify via voice, so you can use it with a landline number but you can't use it with no number at all

I have signed up Google Voice accounts (which come with a number) for Signal but it may or may not be free to set up Google Voice depending on how Google feels about your account and they're definitely gonna make you tell them and verify a different phone number to be able to do that

Show threadjordan4d ago
@forestine (sadly I'm honestly not familiar enough with any of the other alternatives to confidently make a recommendation, as far as I know it's "try one of the other Meta services" or go off even farther into Linux lalaland than I'm willing to go myself, like I ain't gonna tell you to use Matrix or DeltaChat)
Show threadforestine4d ago
@jordan deltachat looks a lot easier than trying to fake a phone for signal actually
Show threadjordan4d ago
@forestine oh yeah almost certainly, I honestly haven't used it myself, I've looked at it a few times but weirded out about either alternative of giving it my actual email creds or signing up for someone's "chatmail" server and the whole "apps" thing they have implemented on top of it gets real freaky on a technical level
Show threadforestine4d ago
@jordan a friend suggested one called Session that doesn't require your email or anything
Show threadjordan4d ago
@forestine that is another one I have heard of but not used
Show threadZoé Cassiopée ✨4d ago
@forestine A few people have mentioned using Google Voice as a workaround, but that's really just applicable for people in the US
Show threadBedlam Steps4d ago
@forestine Would Delta Chat fit the bill? Based on email transports, has a desktop app, you just install the app and connect to a server, then you can share your address as a QR code - https://delta.chat
Delta Chat: Delta Chat, decentralized secure messenger

Delta Chat is a decentralized and secure messenger app 💬 Reliable instant messaging with multi-profile and multi-device support ⚡️ Sign up to secure and interoperable chatmail relays 🥳 Interactive ...

Show threadforestine4d ago
@bedlamsteps this looks great, thank you!
Show threadSleepyCatten4d ago

@forestine We can vouch for Delta Chat being decent and easy to use. Alternatively, Element (Matrix) is decent. Both can be used on desktop and a phone, but don't require a phone number.

As for Signal, we know that Signal Beta allows you to connect with folks solely via a username, keeping your phone number private, but we are not sure whether you can sign up without a phone number.

@bedlamsteps

Show threadforestine4d ago
@SleepyCatten @bedlamsteps great, thanks!
Show threadCurio4d ago
@SleepyCatten
If you’re talking about not revealing your phone number, that got released a while ago (like almost a year ago, I think). Or is this about something else?
@forestine @bedlamsteps
Show threadK4d ago
@forestine
I'm on Delta with no friends whatsoever, I don't even know if it works, in case you want to try it with me.
Show threadKore Artemis (A-314) 4d ago
@forestine to my knowlege signal without a phone is impossible (thats one of the main complaints about it)
Show threadKore Artemis (A-314) 4d ago
@forestine telegram would work im pretty sure but its encryption is dogey at best and its highly likely that russian intelligence at least can read it
Show threadmkb4d ago

@mjustm @forestine Yes, dodgy is an understatement for Telegram.

For starters, most conversations are not encrypted end-to-end. Group chats can’t be encrypted end-to-end at all. That means anybody with access to Telegram’s servers can read those messages. Telegram uses deceptive marketing to try to paper over that fact.

@rysiek dug into the Telegram protocol and found grotesque incompetence.

https://rys.io/en/179.html

Telegram is indistinguishable from an FSB honeypot

Many people who focus on information security, including myself, have long considered Telegram suspicious and untrustworthy. Now, based on findings published by the investigative journalism outlet ISt

Songs on the Security of Networks
Show threadcharlotte4d ago
@forestine get a burner phone number from a service like herosms or google voice. the phone number is never used after registration, the identity is stored effectively on device and can be transferred between phones, usernames are used to find recipients
Show threadmkb4d ago

@halva @forestine That approach is cheapest but brings a problem. If the Signal account owner ever needs to re-register, they’ll need the original phone number.

That can be mitigated by setting (and remembering) a Signal PIN as well as using Signal’s free backup tier.

Best practice is to use a number one can hold onto, such as Burner App, GVoice, or another voip service.

Show threadzivi4d ago
@forestine use delta chat, it’s largely like signal except decentralized and without the enshittifiedness
Show threadgod damn gremlin4d ago
@forestine delta.chat has a reasonably easy setup flow assuming you're both in person. it can't do calling though afaik

signal categorically requires a phone number i think. you can setup an account without a smartphone via third-party tools but none of them are "easy" i dont think. the easiest one i can think of (signal-cli) still requires basic command line knowledge
Delta Chat: Delta Chat, decentralized secure messenger

Delta Chat is a decentralized and secure messenger app 💬 Reliable instant messaging with multi-profile and multi-device support ⚡️ Sign up to secure and interoperable chatmail relays 🥳 Interactive ...

Show threadmkb4d ago

@aleteoryx @forestine Yes, Signal requires some sort of phone number. That can be voip or even a landline.

DeltaChat shows great potential though I haven’t dug into its security. Signal is the gold standard even though the phone number requirement is prohibitive for some.