Mastodawn

@silkester "Macron made an offer to Carney"

Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the hardest.

According to "Canada Now" it happened on a morning run in Helsinki.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This might just as well be a hoax. I still find it interesting that a channel is selling it as news, as if a no from Carney would be an affront to Europe.

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@silkester I mean, it makes sense that Canadian media wouldn't have the context to see why this is absurd, but trust me... no French President is EVER handing a veto over EU decisions to any non-European country (and if they could help it, they'd probably never hand another one to any European country either).

@Veza85UE
Uhm? EU-veto... what do you misunderstand here?

In an informal setting one diplomat raised a question to another and it was rejected. This was not a formal invitation by the entire EU.

This has nothing to do with any EU-veto.

@silkester Oh, but it does... That's how the EU works (unfortunately). Whatever Barrot was joking about, EU membership is not going to be offered to any non-European country, not in an informal setting, not ever. Because membership would give countries like Canada a veto over EU law. France was quite happy to see the back of the UK and get rid of THEIR veto (and they were right), it's NOT giving that veto right to non Europeans just because they have a friendly PM for a couple of years.

@Veza85UE
EU want the UK back, even if France was initially happy with getting rid of the UK.

As for Canada as a EU country. There are plenty of advantages and currently Canada is getting closer to the EU.

The EU may see more benefits than drawbacks. But just like Norway never joined the EU but formed a special relation with the norther country and Europe as two entities.

There is a progression that preludes a joining, which is what is currently happening between EU and Canada.

@silkester No, that's not what's happening, that's not how EU accession works. And no, Canada is not joining the EU as a member state. If Canada wants to be a "fax democracy" like Norway (pays into the EU budget, but has no veto over EU law and EU decisions) then sure, go for it. Though I'll note that currently, most local Canadian businesses would not survive a week in the EU Single Market. Bulgaria and Sweden trade with less barriers between them than Manitoba and Québec do.

Sheesh! You are determined to misinterpred my words.

Politicians in talkshows and Interview. Too many to list here. Go and use your search engine of your choice.

And for your link "eupolicy.social" you are freightfully unfamiliar with EU history and how countries joined in the past.

Veza85UE

@silkester Talkshows? OK, sure. My girlfriend goes to a different school too.

Do you know what the European Council is? Please EUxplain to me some more, I'd love to know which EU accession talks started via jokes.

It starts with economic treaties. It did and still does. Countries grow closer to EU regulations until joinign is a natureal progression.

Turkey was close before Erduan went autocrat.

@silkester ...what economic treaties? How do countries "grow closer to EU regulations"? This is a highly codified legal process, podcasts and jokes do not come into it. And it starts with being eligible which Canada is not.

Aside from the jokes and podcasts...

Carney was making deals with the EU. Sheesh! Trump's tariffs forced EU and Canada to work something out to soften the blow.

Ergo not jokes and podcasts.

Political process which may or may not lead to joining. See Nordic countries not in the EU. History!

@silkester Yes, the EU makes a shitmetricton of trade deals with countries all over the globe. Not a single one of them will lead to EU membership for those countries. Not Singapore, not Japan, not Brazil, not Canada.

It may NOT lead to joining because those countries are not eligible for membership according to EU Treaties.

You do seem to be determined to go into the absurd to prove I point I never made.

I had it. Let's end this here, you are getting on my nerves.

@silkester "may or may not lead to joining" is a direct quote. From YOU.

Sure, no problem. Just maybe try not to mansplain the EU to a European when you don't know how the EU works next time, it should make for a much more relaxing experience.

Yes and you bring Japan into it, where I was referring to the Nordinc neighbors and Turkey, actial viable candidates for the EU.

@silkester Yes, Iceland, Norway and Turkey are technically eligible because they are European states (Turkey is not currently a viable candidate and its accession is frozen indefinitely). We do not have trade deals with them like we do with Canada, they are part of the EU's Customs Union. Do you understand the difference? Norway is even more integrated, it pays into the EU budget. It has no say in how that budget is used and no veto over EU decisions. Again, if Canada wants that, sure, why not.

Yes. Turkey no longer is. But it was. There steps made on both sides to make it happen until it was no longer the case because Turkey went full autocrat.

@silkester Turkey is a European State, thus eligible under EU Treaties.

Canada is not.

Seriously, you really don't pay attention to preludes to policy making. How media shape politics and vice versa.

Canada still has a European King.

And again! you jumped ahead when I never was. And if you think that Canada being on the other side of the Atlantic will be a hindering point & will stop EU or Canada if both want it, you're naive.

But currently Trump-trolling is a thing by politicians and potcasters. So we are in the joke arena not policy arena.

@silkester There is no policy arena for a non-European State joining the EU in violation of the EU Treaties. It's not happening.

Again, do you understand the difference between having a trade deal with Canada and placing Canada under the jurisdiction of the European Courts?

Oh, and who said this: "There is a progression that preludes a joining, which is what is currently happening between EU and Canada."

And Canada having a puppet head of state from outside of the EU is NOT a flex.

https://us.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/speech-president-republic-frances-nuclear-deterrence

@silkester Btw, where are we on this? I found you the exact mark in the speech at which the French President says:

(PS: in case there are any women reading this... Ladies, if you ever doubt yourselves in life, ever, just ask yourselves: would a man have these doubts?)

Seriously! I'm not lying when I tell you that at some point seriious, respectful media in Germany reported that Macron offered the lauch button to Merz. It was not written in a treaty concept, but pure media, which it was Putin-trolling in my opinion.

So again! shut up and move on. You are riding a dead horse.

@silkester It wasn't serious media if it was lying.

You, haven't payed much attention to inofficial leaks and official speaches.
It happens every day.

Some are preludes to create an acceptance in public opinion.
Some are trolling politicians in other countries to influence public opinion in their countries.

Some like that article I read a long while ago from a rputable source that had a vague "thinking about" in it was trolling like "go too far and see what happens." Pretty much a page from Putin's propaganda.
1/2

Which I found amusing but hardly something that will come to pass.

So why are you trying to convince me of something that I never disputed.

You are aguing topics you bring up and I don't. You pretend that every treaty is written in stone, every law is unmoveable. Neither is ever the case. But again not relevant to anything I wrote, because it was never an issue raised by me. You did needlessly.

@silkester Yes, yes, of course, anybody reading this thread would come to the conclusion that you NEVER intimated in any way that Canada is "currently" in "a progression that preludes a joining, which is what is currently happening between EU and Canada." Sure.

Yes, of course, everything is trolling... look, it's not that big of a deal. You read some BS that turned out to be false, now you know better, it's fine. Retropedalling so hard to make it not false just looks silly and desperate.

And again you are going into the absurd to argue a point I never made in the absolute and I took care to give a correct impression.
There was never ever a treaty that didn't have a prelude of official and inofficial statements and events that moved a country and their politicians to make this treaty.
Sometimes there is a treaty in mind first and PR is constructed to make it happen, other times events and PR comes long before a treaty is ever considered.
That's how the world works.

You are again stating facts that do not apply at this point.

Honestly, shut up and move on.

I already told you where we are and why we never get to the point where policy is going to change to make something happen.

And I also already gave you a possible loophole how EU could — NOT WOULD — use to declare Canada enough Europe.

@silkester Oh, you did? What is it, does it involve France annexing Canada via Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon?