Mastodawn

What is a gender neutral honorific for non-binary folk?

https://lemmy.world/post/44637079

What is a gender neutral honorific for non-binary folk? - Lemmy.World

I was raised to address strangers and those I wish to show social deference to as “Sir” or “Ma’am”. It’s a difficult habit to break, as it is deeply engrained. What is an equivalent gender neutral honorific that is relatively common in English? If I can’t break the habit I’d rather have a substitute word to use instead of an awkward pause in the middle of addressing someone I’d just use Google to ask but I’d rather ask the people directly rather than an AI generated answer based off of Reddit threads

shittydwarf 2d ago

“My friend” is pretty safe

SirSamuel 2d ago

It works for person’s of middle eastern cultural descent for sure, but it’s fairly casual for a native English speaker from Appalachia

[deleted]2d ago

I’m not your friend, buddy!

Don’t like forced closeness as a neutral greeting, comes across to me as either manipulative or meaningless.

halfdane 2d ago

I’m not your buddy, pal!

Chippys_mittens 2d ago

I use “friend” a lot.

BertramDitore 2d ago

This one bugs me a bit. I’m sure it’s said with good intentions, but I have a client who calls everyone on my team “friend” whether or not she knows us, and it always rubs me the wrong way. We’re not friends, she’s the client in a professional setting, and she has never shown any interest in getting to know me enough to actually call me “friend” and have it mean something, so it always comes across as superficial and unnaturally folksy.

As someone who doesn’t have a ton of deep friendships, the ones I do have matter a lot to me, which means I don’t like to throw around the word “friend” lightly.

Could just be my own emotional hangups though.

Chippys_mittens 2d ago

Yeah this is a perfect example of why it doesn’t matter how polite you try to be. Someone is going to be bothered by ANY language at some point. So long as you have good intentions, you’ve satisfied your end of the interaction.

fartographer 2d ago

Friend-o. And carry a coin.

Gentlepeople?

ProdigiousInsanity 2d ago

But what if they are an MMA fighter?

CerebralHawks 2d ago

FWIW, Sir is gender neutral in the military — this came up in Star Trek Voyager, anyway. Basically if your senior officer isn’t male, they’re sir until they tell you otherwise.

givesomefucks 2d ago

Not really…

Like, yeah, probably in Star Trek, but that would have been a projected evolution of modern society, not a reflection of current reality.

Everyone would assume “sir” and if it’s over an email no one is getting worked up about it.

But call a female officer “sir” to her face and I don’t think it will go well

Not sure what military you served in, but the one I served in definitely didn’t call women sir until instructed otherwise. However, “mister” may be correct for all warrant officers.

I served in the US Air Force. Everyone was “Sir” or “Ma’am” and it was very gender-specific. Even for the few years we allowed transgender folks to serve (before Trump banned them), you referred to them by their preferred transition title.

We don’t have warrant officers in the Air Force, so I can’t speak to their title of address.

Same, USAF but decades ago. It was actually the USAF protocol office I called to verify the “mister” address for WO. Not because we had them, but because they still have protocol for how to address them, generally army chopper pilots if I recall.

When I served (2002-2022), we were always told that warrant officers are technically officers, so treat them the same as any officer. So we would’ve addressed them as Sir or Ma’am if we came across them. As well as saluting them if we met them outside.

I don’t recall ever addressing anyone as “Mister” in the service. Heck, I retired a few years ago and now I feel weird when people call me Mr. [Last Name]. I got so used to being called by my rank and last name for 2 decades. Mister just sounds wrong.

CerebralHawks 1d ago

Um, Starfleet… as mentioned (Star Trek Voyager… Star Trek’s Starfleet is inspired by the Navy).

I never served… Mostly due to health reasons

Oh I misunderstood you. I thought you were using the Star Trek reference as just a supporting claim that militaries follow this practice. But I see now you meant only in that context.

CerebralHawks 1d ago

Yeah, I meant that Star Trek did it, and Star Trek is (supposed to be) based on the Navy, so as one who’s never served, I really only have Star Trek Voyager (which had a female captain) to go by.

With female bosses, I’ve always asked them if they want to be called sir or ma’am. It sounds like a good way to catch hands, but if you ask out of respect and good faith, chances are you’ll be answered in kind.

FWIW, Sir is not gender neutral in Gamestop.

Rhynoplaz 2d ago

Sir, this is a Wendy’s.

Ghostalmedia 2d ago

GameStop has Wendy’s now?

fartographer 2d ago

Yeah, Wendy’s nuts are loose but your manager “borrowed” the socket set and now your clearance display is on the ground.

zedgeist 1d ago

Wen deez nuts are loose

It means I’m getting old…

No, I got yelled at when I didn’t see.

JustAnotherKay 2d ago

Sir hasn’t been gender neutral in my military for like 30 years at least

HikingVet 2d ago

Sir is gender neutral in fictional militaries. Every woman holding a commission I ever encountered was ma’am. Didn’t matter the country.

CerebralHawks 1d ago

Yes, Star Trek is fictional.

But the way you’ve formatted yourself first comment is “this thing is a military thing, as can be seen from this fictional military” which doesn’t necessarily imply said thing is fictional even though the military you’ve used as an example is.

Sa’am.

Drunkdos 2d ago

CptHacke 2d ago

Having worked in the retail sector for some time, I quickly learned that appearances are often deceiving after a few embarrassing blunders on my part. I taught myself to call everyone ‘my friend’. I had no more problems after that.

Also if you have to hand someone off to another colleague, I find you can just use “we”, and it still feels polite. At least compared to calling them “the customer” (clumsy) or “they” (rude, when they’re right next to you). 😃

“So, we’re looking for [product], and we need it to be [thing]. Oh, and we have a budget of £25.”

CptHacke 2d ago

Yes, I’ve done this, as well. It definitely works.

TheAsianDonKnots 2d ago

I was raised in southern hospitality, so I know exactly what you’re going through.

I just stopped using pronouns altogether.

“Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

Turns out 99% of interactions don’t depend on what genitals a person’s rocking. I guess if you’re asked to identify a suspect in a crime it might help? Point being, stop focusing on their crotch and what they’re doing with it 😁 you’ve been trained to be weird about it.

ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠 2d ago

I can’t not address a person, that’s incredibly rude.

LurkingLuddite 2d ago

You can address someone without pronouns… they even gave examples.

ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠 2d ago

I can and do address people without gendered pronouns. OP was suggesting not addressing them with an honorific at all.

LurkingLuddite 2d ago

That might be the words they said while completely ignoring the examples, but those examples made it abundantly clear that they meant gendered pronouns.

ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠 1d ago

Their examples:

“Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

The individual they are speaking to is not formally addressed. I’m not going to address a stranger informally.

I just stopped using pronouns altogether.

“Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

ALL of these have pronouns. At least one of them has multiple pronouns! Haha

TheAsianDonKnots 2d ago

Sorry, meant gender pronouns.

nile_istic 1d ago

Everyone with a brain knew what you meant, don’t worry.

fartographer 2d ago

What are talking about? Said it perfectly fine, are being intentionally dense. Sorry but people like annoy the shit out of.

(“it” is also a pronoun")

fartographer 1d ago

Oh fuck…

agent_nycto 1d ago

Didn’t be a pendant, and don’t laugh after being a pendant. It’s condescending and rude.

CannonFodder 1d ago

‘San’ is gendered /s

gwl [he/him]1d ago

You is a pronoun btw, just it’s only used in specific contexts

pixxelkick 2d ago

Cant go wrong with “Partner”

“Scuse me Partner, is this seat taken?” Still slaps if you say it confidently enough

Optional 2d ago

Got any of that good sarsaparilla?

Battle_Masker 2d ago

You here lookin for the Sundance Kid too?

jordanlund 2d ago

One of my favorite sci fi authors addressed it like this:

M.

Mr? Mrs? Miss? Ms? Nope. “M.”

Steve Perry - great books. He did a bunch of licensed books for Star Wars and Aliens, but his own universe is excellent!

AskewLord 2d ago

just don’t use any honorifics.

problem solved.

SirSamuel 2d ago

Honorifics are part of my culture and tradition. I’ve let go of a lot of other things from my culture that interfere with loving my neighbor, but there’s certain social mores I don’t want to abandon. Honorifics are a way of showing respect to others in my culture, it is as ingrained as taking off one’s hat and standing for a funeral procession.

Korean is easier, just call everyone Teacher. Problem solved.

AskewLord 2d ago

that sucks.

hexagonwin 13h ago

the word you mean (선생님) is quite different from ‘teacher’ tho, can’t think of an english equivalent of that word…

SirSamuel 9h ago

Could… could it be summed up… like considering cultural context, including historical respect for certain vocations, and Confucian influences in earlier centuries, as a word like, I don’t know, Teacher?

I kid I kid, i get what you’re saying, but teacher is generally accepted as the English translation for 선생님 to the best of my knowledge. Granted, I haven’t studied the language for almost 20 years but I think that’s still the case, yes?

Also, and genuinely curious here, what is used for “teacher” in a school setting? Like I can see a little kid saying 제 선생님은 재미있서 because of how 선생님 is used. But if a teenager said their teacher sucks what word would they use?

hexagonwin 5h ago

honestly i’m not sure lol

you’re right but that’s mostly in the context of students referring to their teachers, i had the impression it’s quite different from the way it gets used as a second person pronoun or as a way of showing respect to someone.

Also, and genuinely curious here, what is used for “teacher” in a school setting? But if a teenager said their teacher sucks what word would they use?

선생님 is the primary way of refering to teachers, but if one’s being rude they might as well say “선생” (without the “님”) or their name, nickname, etc…

english isn’t my primary language so i’m not sure if my comment makes sense lol

SirSamuel 1h ago

Oh yeah, dropping the 님 makes total sense, I just didn’t know if there was another word used besides “선생” for teacher in a general sense.

Don’t worry about your English, it’s better than mine and I’m a native speaker and occasional pedant. Your comment absolutely makes sense.