Mastodawn

I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.

This all seems so fucking obvious.

Nick Farmer 1d ago

@quixoticgeek That would be too easy for governments and would hurt their little brains

Dean Martineau 1d ago

@mekkaokereke @quixoticgeek Just another case of affirmative action for white people and big business. Oh, but I forgot, we don't like affirmative action any more. We used to like it in the "good old days!"

@quixoticgeek 100% this!

Neo Ehproque 1d ago

@quixoticgeek does that even include roads?

Mark Koek 1d ago

@quixoticgeek Do these people know how cheap solar panels are even without subsidies? And that you can use them to charge an EV for free?

Quixoticgeek 23h ago

@mkoek that assumes you can put solar panels up where you live and run a cable to your car. I live 8 floors up. I can't run a cable to a car from there.

disorderlyf 23h ago

@quixoticgeek @mkoek tbf, you personally might not be able to, but if part of the rent from everyone in the building went to it, the landlord could likely easily fit solar on the roof

Quixoticgeek 23h ago

@disorderlyf @mkoek still wouldn't be able to charge cars directly off it. The only way would be for the landlord to sell the power to the grid and give some of the money to us. Which is unlikely.

disorderlyf 22h ago

@quixoticgeek @mkoek I'll give you that landlords are typically not to be trusted with this sort of thing and I would mostly require legal mandate to expect it to happen. Although, I suspect while not currently probable that the buildings also having charging stations that are charged partially by the building's solar are technically possible. Hell, there are already apartment buildings with charging stations built it. I just haven't seen apartment buildings with both yet.

Mark Koek 20h ago

@quixoticgeek @disorderlyf Such systems exist. Each tenant is assigned a couple of panels on the building’s roof and the power is fed to their apartment, which can sell any excess power onto the grid. Landlord charges some cost. I have a colleague who has that.

disorderlyf 20h ago

@mkoek @quixoticgeek I was unaware there were already apartment buildings which already implemented solar panels and charging stations reserved for tenants. I desperately hope more buildings than your colleague's implement this, because the only people I see losing from this are C-suite executives of Exxon-Mobile or BP.

Mark Koek 10h ago

@disorderlyf @quixoticgeek The challenge now is that there is so much solar in the Netherlands, electricity is mostly free when it’s really sunny so yield is decreasing a lot. Smart devices will help, using power at those times even when you’re away.

Mark Koek 20h ago

@quixoticgeek I agree that that would be a challenge :)

Project 1789 1d ago

It's about 6 trillion per year globally.
Please fact check me.

LeChat has found an IMF report putting it at 7 trillion for 2022. It also reports substantially lower figures for 2023: 640 billion. Still about 10 times as much as subsidies for renewable energies that year.

Joan of Contention 😷1d ago

@quixoticgeek I swear tf. See also "externalised" costs of (combustion engine) driving.

@quixoticgeek And even if it were true that renewables were only possible due to subsidies, so fucking what? They still allow for energy independence, fewer wars and partnering with genocidal regimes because of said independence, power grid redundancies, and, of course, are helping reduce/slow the effect of climate, the greatest existential threat humanity has ever faced.

“But the true cost isn’t factored in!”
You’re right: we don’t know how many WILL die for oil, climate, and profits.

CockneyLaurie 1d ago

Of course ALL cars are subsidised compared to trains because the government builds and maintains roads out of our taxes

Plane fuel is also massively subsidised... Whenever someone talks about public transport being subsidised the Right goes mad

Pedestriansfirst 23h ago

@cockneylaurie @quixoticgeek Cars don’t pay their massive social costs and so are very heavily subsidised. #Congestion #Pollution

@quixoticgeek Note that you didn't disconfess the first claim, but you just affirmed that other forms of energy are subsidized.
Now that can be interesting: let me claim that any form of energy get subsidies.
We aren't, as final users, paying 'directly' for all of its cost.
And it's already so costly for us! At least for me.

I'd summarize that anyway the problem isn't the direct cost of energy, or the indirect cost of plants and production. What's more relevant is the footprint it leaves.

Quixoticgeek 23h ago

@luc0x61 what country are you in ?

@quixoticgeek I'm in Italy. Is that relevant? 🤔

disorderlyf 23h ago

@quixoticgeek Given the cost of renewables arguably being cheaper than fossil fuels, those same subsidies likely would go further in green energy

Peter H 22h ago

@quixoticgeek Also:
"Renewables are useless because when there's no wind or sun we don't have power"

And at the same time:

"Let's store lots of fossil fuels in big storage facilities to use in the moments we're not pulling it out of the ground."

In the Netherlands we are able to store approx. 120 billion KWh of gas. Let's see how useless renewables are the moment we get the same amount of electricity-storage

Quixoticgeek 22h ago

@peter_slwk that's 120 TWh. Which is about the same as the annual usage of electricity... Blimey.

Terry Morlan 20h ago

@quixoticgeek And the timber indistry ad well.

@quixoticgeek It's also straight up not true, most solar installations would be profitable long-term without any subsidies, because the maintenance costs are so much lower than competing technologies.

Building them rapidly is only viable because of subsidies, this is a technique known as "planning".

Kevin Russell 20h ago

This is one of several schools who built their own solar roof systems, and are hiring extra teachers wirh savings.

BYD automakers are giving away 18 months of charging, emphasising wild gas prices in these times of oil wars.

Uruguay has jump started its oil depressed economy by becoming 99% New Energy.

https://electrek.co/2026/02/25/these-schools-went-solar-and-the-savings-will-pay-for-teachers/

These schools went solar – and the savings will pay for teachers

Solar panels at 15 West Virginia schools could save up to $200k a year, cutting costs and emissions while funding classrooms.

Electrek

Quixoticgeek 20h ago

@kevinrns Here in the Netherlands schools are funded properly...

Veda Dalsette 19h ago

It's obvious that your ideas do not make billionaires richer, and that, my friend, is the most important thing in the world. Apparently.

Billy Smith 18h ago

When I hear people say this, I always say, "Yes! We should remove subsidies from all forms of energy! I'm so glad that you are going on the public record as being against the subisies for fossil fuels!" :D

@quixoticgeek €40 biljon a year allows for quite some lobby apparatus in #TheHague and Brussels. Plus rich rewards for public servants to join the corrupt #fossilindustry after their stint in public office. And don't underestimate the determination in defending the wealth biljonairs enjoy, it is their God given right to rule