Flaky
Matthew GarrettHaving the core infrastructure for Linux distros be written with a coherent set of design goals instead of being 200 independent projects that can only interoperate via shell scripts parsing and piping output is good, actually
Dan Kegel
Jon Wood@mjg59 oh thank god, I’m not the only person on the planet who thinks systemd and its various *d components is actually quite nice to work with if you spend an hour or two reading the documentation.
stephen
Paul Wouters 🇪🇺🇨🇦@mjg59 now do one where the design goals are not one person’s personal home network
Chris Adams@mjg59 co-signed. I think you see a huge divide between people who support more computers than they personally own and those who have defined an identity around hating systemd.
keithp
Shiz@mjg59 but anyway, high disagree that there should be a singular "the core infrastructure" to begin with
variety and diversity is one of the things that make Linux appealing and broadly useable, harmonizing towards a monoculture ain't it imo
@shiz nothing stopping someone else solving the same set of problems tbh
@mjg59 I agree, although I think there are some compounding factors that do make it more difficult in the current landscape, forcing such a (set of) undertakings to solve more of these problems At Once
but that's a thought that needs some more stewing instead of being blarfed out unfinished at 2AM :)
Val Packett 🧉@shiz @mjg59 excessive variety and its fanatical zealots were what was holding linux/freedesktop back by decades.
having 300 ways to manage windows, 200 ways to configure system startup and 100 ways to configure the network is nerd masturbation. it does not a competitive real-world-able platform make
@valpackett Linux systems in all kinds of shapes and forms have been "competitive" in the real world since way before systemd came along, even if that were the only metric to care about
regardless, you'll understand I'm not very interested in further engaging in a discussion when the first reply is full of dramatical hyperbole and dismissal
Speaktrap@valpackett @shiz @mjg59 by this way of thinking we should have one human race (possibly white) because variety bad
@speaktrap @valpackett @shiz @mjg59 Not a good analogy. For one, standardization is not unethical, whereas racism very much is. For another, diverse groups of people do better at getting things done, whereas having tons of different projects that do similar things mean none are as good.
@alwayscurious @valpackett @shiz @mjg59 This is false. While monogameous project grow fast in the longer run they are very toxic for the whole environment.
Like with browsers, when one engine dominates the web developers stop keeping to the W3C standards and just make it work with IE/Chrome. It's pathological.
We also need alternatives in case The Big Project goes bad (like Systemd right now accepting AI pull requests or adopting dangerous California law)
This is why we need competing standards for a healthy platform.
It's slower, but it's good (unless you want to move fast and break things like certain wealthy ketamine lover)
Ludovic :Firefox: :FreeBSD:@valpackett @shiz @mjg59 I suspect most niche X window managers and Wayland compositors will eventually be replaced by WMs for River, which should help quite a bit.
Pierre Equoy@shiz diversity is great until it starts slowing down usability. When the effort of hundreds of people are split to try to fix the same set of issues, I feel like everybody's wasting time.
(Of course, the general answer to this is that no, it's not *exactly* the same issue we're trying to fix, but it's often a little bit of a lie)
abstrmThose who don't like it may prefer the more traditional BSDs
👀
where the kernel and init system share the same source repository?
Kenny
Howard Chu @ Symas@mjg59 having simple composable tools that can communicate with pipes is good, actually.
@hyc as long as you're not having to pipe it through awk first because the tools all use entirely incompatible formats
@mjg59 I've never seen an init system that relied on awk to make all its scripts compatible, but even so, awk works.
On the other hand, software built with LLM-plagiarized code is *bad*, actually. https://mastodon.social/@kapualabs/116273857383339305
@mjg59 and that's not just a judgement call, that's objective fact. https://mastodon.world/@anttipeltola/116259219602703669
@hyc if you can look at sysv init scripts and think "This is the reasonable outcome of a thoughtful design process" then we are so far apart in matters of taste that there's no point in further discussion
@mjg59 use of AI isn't a matter of taste. https://mastodon.social/@hyc/116274100279140311
@hyc you appear to be responding to something I didn't say