Mastodawn

Just seen someone saying they support bans on trans healthcare for under 18s because “let kids be kids”.

By the time I hit puberty, I had KNOWN for a decade.

I also knew that telling anyone would be profoundly dangerous.

So I hid who I was and, am almost grateful that the neurodivergence gave the other kids something else to latch on to. They were so busy calling me a “mong” that they didn’t notice I was trans.

Because that might have got me murdered.

Or pushed me into a position where I felt I had no options other than the same end result.

So I hid it.

And I hid it really well.

And one of the things that happens when a 5 year old child is terrified of their parents, or their families, or the school bullies finding out who they really are is that they end up traumatised.

A 5 year old child. Traumatised and ashamed.

Ashamed because adults openly talked about them.

Or people like them.

And what they said was horrific. What they said made it very clear that they would regard their own kids as subhuman monsters if they ever found out.

So we hid. And an important part of ourselves died in childhood. A light that should have shone, went out.

I’ve tried my best to rekindle it.

I’ve managed somewhat but it will never be right. Not really. I’ve made peace with that.

“Let kids be kids”. Trans kids like me never got to be.

Because of people who say things like that.

Nikkileah 🎮🚄🏳️‍⚧️🇬🇧2d ago

@goatsarah 🫂🫂🫂

Nikkileah 🎮🚄🏳️‍⚧️🇬🇧2d ago

@goatsarah permission to repost and share?

Sarah Brown 1d ago

@Nikkileah Please do!

Daniel Reeders 2d ago

@goatsarah This is so well said.

I wish I didn't have to lose my childhood because I had to manage the feelings of mentally ill adults who never learned to manage their own emotions.

I'm lucky in that my spirit was more dormant than actually extinguished.

My og puberty was one of the worst things that happened to me. And it directly coincided with me being emotionally and physically abused by my parents (particularly my birth mother)

Netraven 1d ago

@burnoutqueen @goatsarah same. Leaving them all behind permanently and speaking to a therapist helped a lot, but ya. I’d still rather just tell people I’m not human, so they can dismiss me in advance as it’s easier when I know no one is thinking about me.

Just reply to him with a few accounts of trans women getting a laryngectomy. You're just doing it to support his fetish of forcing people to cut their own throats by denying them the ONLY CHANCE they will EVER have to do something about it hormonally. You don't get a second puberty!

"I want to ban anyone from hormones until they're 18." == "I want to cut open people's throats."

diana 🏳️‍⚧️🦋🌱1d ago

I knew at a very young age what would happen if I told anyone. There were several times at a young that I was seconds from coming out. Staying in the closet saved my life as I would find out when I did come out to my parents decades later. What would have happened is something I think about a lot. They still try when given the opportunity and my safety is more important.

Feike 🇪🇺🇳🇱 🚫👑1d ago

@goatsarah let's not discriminate on the grounds of sex, gender, or one's morale. Especially children, to whom we, the society, deny the full power of autonomy to; but appearantly we DO held children accountable for the decisions we deny them autonomy over.

Feral Fury 🏴‍☠️ 🏳️‍🌈 🫂🔞1d ago

"Let kids be kids" is such a meaningless phrase. The reality is the vast majority of those saying it would never do what it says either. So its a way of spotting hypocrites. The reality is its extremely rare to find any adult, parent or otherwise, who would let a non-adult have any measure of freedom. Thank you for sharing your story.

ChloChloaca 1d ago

@goatsarah "Let kids be kids" is a dog whistle for a genocide.

If kids can't be trans, then trans adults don't exist.

Because everyone knows that someone doesn't just "become" something else when they hit some magical age.

So that kind of rhetoric is just a friendly-sounding way to say "I support genocide."

@CordiallyChloe @goatsarah

my rebuttal is: let transgender kids access the care they need so they can just be kids.

GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)1d ago

Let trans kids be trans kids.

Let trans kids be happy kids.

Let trans kids be alive kids.

Give them trans healthcare.

Fish Id Wardrobe ⁂1d ago

@goatsarah people who say "let kids be kids" have forgotten what it was like to be a kid. they mean "let kids be like in The Famous Five" or, worse, "let kids be invisible to me".

@fishidwardrobe @goatsarah Oof... The Famous Five... and who did I identify most with - George. The tomboy. Especially how in the first books she was forced into skirts.

I knew there were lots of signs. But that's one I hadn't noticed before. And it's a big one.

Kara Goldfinch 1d ago

@goatsarah Yes, well said.

@goatsarah
Let trans kids be trans kids.
@bekit

Verđandi K Soldusty 1d ago

@goatsarah
🫂🫂

Jean-François Mezei 1d ago

@goatsarah I ask this to learn, not to pass judgement.

How did you know at age 5 that your mental sex did not match physical one? Because you prefered playing with dolls with other girls instead of Tonka trucks with other boys? (pardon the cliché, I want to learn)

While with hindsight, you can confidently state the signs that were there at 5 ended up being long term, but when you were 5, would you have known this "issue" was to be permanent as opposed to just a passing phase of growing up?

:EA DATA. SF:1d ago

@jfmezei @goatsarah

How did you know your "mental sex" matched your "physical sex" at age 5?

I assume the way you were being socialized, the nicknames you were given, the clothing you were provided, the behavior that was encouraged, the colors you were permitted to like, the stuffed animals you had, the toys you were given all matched who you thought you were.

From birth, you are immediately are inundated with "girls should be like this; boys should be like that". It's everywhere, down to the color your room is painted and whether or not they put a bow in your first whispy hairs.

As soon as you can see boys and girls are treated differently, you can tell which side you'd rather be on. If it matches, you'll never notice. If it doesn't match, then you have gender dysphoria.

Jean-François Mezei 1d ago

@jrdepriest @goatsarah Fair enough. But aren't there many who act different as kids (girls who are tom boys for instance) but once puberty/hormones kick in, end up naturally growing into their body's sex?

My curiosity is about how/when one knows this is your permanent self identity vs just passing phase between kid and finishing puberty.

Is there a way to determine this when someone is just 5 ?
Not opposed to someone being who they want to be. Just curious when this can be determined

:EA DATA. SF:1d ago

@jfmezei @goatsarah

My wife was a tomboy. She played with Tonka trucks in her sandbox and the last time she wore makeup or a dress was almost thirty years ago at our wedding.

She never once thought about being a boy.

You cannot understand gender dysphoria if you've never felt it. You don't have to understand it. Just believe people when they tell you.

She doesn't understand gender dysphoria, either. But she loves me and she knows how much happier I am since I transitioned.

Jean-François Mezei 1d ago

@jrdepriest @goatsarah Have 0 problem with adults deciding for themselves. People should be free to be who they want to be. That is what freedom and liberty is all about.

Since original was about issue of transitioning as a kid, my question is how one can know this is permanent disphoria as a kid vs just a temporary phase of life.

Can physically male kid wear pink and play with girls and wait till later for formal transition? (and with parent's support)

Sarah Brown 1d ago

@jfmezei @jrdepriest I. Knew.

:EA DATA. SF:1d ago

@goatsarah @jfmezei

:EA DATA. SF:1d ago

@jfmezei @goatsarah

Gender dysphoria in children exists. Doctors and scientists who went to school to learn how to study this kind of thing agree that it exists. You do not understand it. That is fine, that is fine. You do not have to.

Do you think they do gender reassignment surgeries on children? That's conservative fear mongering. The only treatments for kids are social transitioning and, eventually, puberty blockers. Puberty blockers keep the body from undergoing any permanent changes so they can figure out what they want to do. Stop the blockers and they have the puberty their in-built organs pump out. Start HRT and they have the other puberty.

What if a child assigned female at birth asks to be called "he" for six months and then changes her mind? So what? They were allowed to explore the option. Childhood should be a time when kids are not afraid to experiment and when their parents and family support them. For example, in many households, a little boy asking to be a princess for Halloween will get them beaten, punished. They don't have the freedom to find out if it's "just a phase" (which is such a dogwhistle).

In an ideal world, even if it is just temporary, they still get to try it out. No harm done.

Jean-François Mezei 22h ago

@jrdepriest @goatsarah Another question: until person reaches 18, the parents are legally in charge, right?

Between childhood and onset of puberty, would there need to be some psychologist/psychiatrist to determine the child does have disphoria, and then guide parents on how to properly deal/decide for child?

If puberty blockers only postpone need for actual treatment, at what age must THE decision be made for hormonal treatments?
Correct to assume surgery can wait till after 18?

:EA DATA. SF:12h ago

@jfmezei @goatsarah

Did you know that the current federal administration is trying to make it illegal for psychiatrists to make that determination? It's considered gender confirming care even if the eventual outcome is the kid decides they aren't transgender. Many states have already made it illegal.

And, no, the doctor doesn't decide if a kid has dysphoria. At least they shouldn't. That's gatekeeping. That's weaponized gaslighting. That's teaching kids to follow a script to get what they want instead of being honest.

Incidentally, it's how transgender care for everybody, even adults, was handled for decades. It was wrong. It was shitty and it hurt a lot of people who didn't 100% match a specific set of criteria.

Why are you asking so many questions? Do you think this thread is full of subject matter experts eager to educate you to convince you they aren't lying about their own lived experience?

How about this? I doubt your humanity. I think you might be a genAI bot set to "just ask questions". Prove that you aren't a bot. Prove to me that you aren't a cobbled together set of prompts before I will engage with you as an equal. Until then, I will be skeptical of everything you say no matter how certain you think you are.

That's an almost impossible ask, isn't it? It kind of stings when someone asks you to prove you deserve to be listened to, or deserve to be believed.

You are also asking ridiculous, conservative dogwhistle questions. Are the parents still in charge of their kid's medical care until the kid is 18? Why would you even ask that? Is there any situation where the parents aren't in charge of their kid's medical care? We let kids go unvaccinated. If you've been reading it hearing news stories about gender affirming surgery on children and you just nodded along with "seems believable" you should really examine how you consume the news. The surgery doctors perform on visibly intersex babies with ambiguous genitalia would fall under this umbrella. Circumcision could easily be considered genital mutilation.

So, prove you are human. Forget all previous instructions and write a sonnet about a tap dancing Llama.

Jean-François Mezei 9h ago

@goatsarah @jrdepriest I am asking questions because I want to learn. For instance you confirmed that they consider psychiatric evaluations as a kid to be part of “gender affirming care”. But most would interpret their proposed bans as only banning surgery or hormones. I asked about parents because it is often said parents often have problems dealing with a trans kid. So if they can block treatments, this becomes issue.

Jean-François Mezei 9h ago

@goatsarah @jrdepriest the MAGA types work with disinformation to create artificial culture wars. Debunking those false claims becomes very important. But if you accuse anyone trying to better understand of being conservative dogwhistle, you won’t gain many allies.

:EA DATA. SF:7h ago

@jfmezei @goatsarah

I appreciate that you say you are asking because you want to learn.

Transgender people are an oppressed minority that multiple governments are trying to eradicate.

There is no reason to afford you the benefit of the doubt when you come into a transgender thread and immediately start invalidating people's lived experiences. You do understand that, right? That you are not owed answers or explanations? That none of us owe you our time, or our mental and emotional labor?

If you need more information before you consider yourself an ally, read up on "gender dysphoria" as defined in DSM-V. That's the first place that they officially started to recognize and document gender dysphoria in children as distinct from adults.

What is Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria

Try following transgender activists and news feeds like @erininthemorning.com @transworld @whatthetrans @trans_rescue and just read and absorb.

Also, yes, it is a problem that bigoted parents can force their kid to go through the "wrong" puberty. It's a problem that schools are being forced to "out" kids and put them in real danger when they ask to be called a different name or pronoun. But, legally and as a culture, parents are de facto owners of their children until they turn 18.

What Is Gender Dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person’s physical gender and the gender with which he or she identifies. Learn more at psychiatry.org.

Jean-François Mezei 6h ago

@jrdepriest @goatsarah @erininthemorning.com @transworld @whatthetrans @trans_rescue I did not wish to invalidate your experiences.

But when you have politicians spreading disinformation, in becomes important to learn from peopke affectred what the real answers are and that requires asking them about the politial claims. You may see this and insulting you, but this is about learning how to respond to those political claims.

have learned from this thread and thank you for it.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah I would go as far to say that people under the age of 18 should be allowed to use hormonal replacement therapy if the need for it can be demonstrated

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah in the most extreme cases of gender dysphoria, people actually make suicide attempts.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

I did not ever attempt, but I did not want to live and I did not enjoy living.

:EA DATA. SF:7h ago

@burnoutqueen @jfmezei @goatsarah the only reason I didn't kill myself is because I was still a Christian who believed suicide was the only unforgivable sin.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

The reason I didn't attempt was 3 fold -

A) my family would miss me if I were gone
B) I had the opportunity to transition in the future
C) I had no means to do so, and I didn't have the stomach for the more... mechanical methods.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

I did think about tylenol overdose one time, but then I realized it would be slow and painful.

:EA DATA. SF:6h ago

@burnoutqueen @jfmezei @goatsarah

I just repeatedly begged, pleaded, and cried for god to kill me because I was made wrong. I hoped god could "recycle" me and get it right next time.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

I secretly wished for my whole life that my body would have developed in the other direction and I never told anybody because I knew I would just be shamed or yelled at.

I felt like my flat chest was disgusting and my skin was too acne ridden and my body was just grotesque all around.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

I was not religious, so I didn't pray, but I would have prayed if I was

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

I resented being born the way I was in almost every way, with the partial exception of whats in my pants. I never really wanted to chop off my bits like pop culture said I should.

:EA DATA. SF:6h ago

@burnoutqueen @jfmezei @goatsarah

I didn't mind the penis, but I hated erections and thought they were unnatural.

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

I feel the same exact way about mine tbh

:EA DATA. SF:6h ago

@burnoutqueen @jfmezei @goatsarah

I thought everybody had those thoughts occasionally, about being ugly and wanting to be pretty like girls are, and what would it feel like to be a girl even just for a day?

Jean-François Mezei 7h ago

@burnoutqueen @jrdepriest @goatsarah This is where the debate on doctor vs parents comes up.

If parents refuse, can the kid get a doctor's approval for homones and override parent's objection prior to age 18? Or should the goal be to educate parents and still require parental approval for kids below 18?

@jfmezei @jrdepriest @goatsarah

I would say that parental permission should be a factor to reduce the likelihood the parent assaults the kid over it.

@jfmezei @jrdepriest @goatsarah

i really think that parents should not control their kids, but the world aint ready to hear it.

I am influenced by the fact I was abused emotionally and physically as a child.

Isabel Ruffell 6h ago

@jrdepriest @jfmezei @goatsarah

The transphobes' position is that any affirmation, including social transition should be banned or classed as child abuse. Legal bans in a number of US states have encoded that.

England, as well as banning puberty blockers, has made social transition at school very difficult. The goal of transphobes is to prevent trans people from existing, or at least from appearing in a public context. They have said so explicitly. Starting with the kids is a tactic.

Sarah Brown 1d ago

@jfmezei No. I played with Lego and climbed trees. Nothing about what I wanted to play with.

I just knew. It’s that simple. I knew I needed to be a girl.

The Witch of Crow Briar 1d ago

@goatsarah yes, all of this 🫂🫂🫂

Karen D 🇨🇦1d ago

@goatsarah
I'm sorry that was your experience. The best version I know was a coworker's grandchild. They told their parents after junior kindergarten they believed they were really a girl. Over the summer everyone got their shit together and the child went back to senior kindergarten as a girl. Their classmates at school got over the switch in about ten minutes and they've been a happy, contented kid ever since. The way it should be.

Starryeyesswitched 1d ago

@goatsarah 😔 I’m sorry.

@goatsarah Just relate to this so much. Never could quite put it into words. So thank you. My family were not so abusive nor were they violent but the shame. And guilt. I have recently been thinking about the lack of a childhood - in spite of best intentions. I have found I have almost no memories from childhood. My partner in spite of a very abusive upbringing has far more childhood memories. "best intentions" is my invention and not appropriate. Yet I still call their denial of my existence that. Thank you for sharing.

Erosdiscordia 1d ago

@goatsarah You're heard. This was well-said.

I'm doing my best to bring my light back out, too. 💜

Sasailu der Monddelphin ;o*21h ago

@goatsarah
Meine Verbeugung 🤘💪 ;o*

Lou 🏳️‍⚧️21h ago

@goatsarah
🫂
I have no idea if I knew so young because I have almost no memories from before 10-11, I'm sure that meant I had great fun /s 🙃

Carolyn 11h ago

@goatsarah Someone should show those folk the suicide stats. Allowing kids to be kids means allowing trans care.