Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago

This is an excellent a-political explainer about why the actual act of Alberta, or any province, "separating" from Canada is a very difficult, maybe impossible, prospect.

It's worth the time (14 minutes) Including if you're not Canadian and want a relatively quick summary of some of the very Canadian history and processes.
#Canada #Separatism #Alberta #USA #CanPoli #CdnPoli #TheAmericanFascist #USA #CBC

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7136155

Why Alberta’s separation from Canada is almost impossible | About That

Alberta's separatist sentiment has resurged in recent months amid the Trump administration's comments about the province's future, coupled with economic and political tensions with the Canadian government. Andrew Chang explains what it would actually take to grant sovereignty to a Canadian province, and why it's so difficult to achieve. Images provided by The Canadian Press, Reuters, Adobe Stock and Getty Images

CBC
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago
@chris When Canada became a country, the first nation treaties signed with the crown were transfered to Canada who has to honour them. One would assume that a separating Alberta would also have to inherit and honour the portions of the treaties that pertain to Alberta. I don't think this would be a big issue, and Donald J Smoth would likely even promise better trearment of first nations under separate AB to gain votes.
Show threadChris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago
@jfmezei this is all part of the video! It's well done. And makes that point that while all of this is technically possible, the actual likelihood of everything lining up resulting in separation is very slim in indeed. The indigenous question in particular I think is a show stopper because the treaties were signed with the Crown before Alberta was even a province.
Show threadGordon J Holtslander
@chris @jfmezei If Alberta attempts to separate they would have to negotiate with the First Nations treaty holders. That would be a very interesting negotiation as the separatists have nothing but ignorance and outrage to bargain with.
Mar 20 at 9:23pmWeb
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@pinhman @chris Not necessarily. Alberta can simply take on existing first nation treaties and honour the portions that pertain to its territory.

In fact, it would be likely that Alberta would inherit all federal govt laws at time of separation and then decide what to do with them over time.

What is not automatic are international trade deals between Canada and other countries. Can't be just transfered to AB without OK from the other country.

Show threadChris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman i dont think First Nations see that as that simple at all.
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@chris @pinhman Did first nations object to Canada repatriating constitition and the treaties effectively becoming between Canada and first nations instead of UK and first nations?

Same would happen when portions related to Alberta are transfered to the new country of Alberta. Now, if Alberta becomes a US state, this become more problematic because lacking the autonomy of a free standing country, it can't necessarily honour those treaties.

Show threadChris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman the question is much more clear now. They believe that the law is clear. They did not make treaties with Canada or the UK governments but the Crown itself.
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@chris @pinhman You need to remember that "crown" referes to a neutral owner. And its management was passed from UL to Canadian government in 1931. So first nations negotiate with Canadian government , not the Queen/King.

So it is quite possible that management of those treaties is simply devolved to Alberta who would then engage to honour them.

Today, when you step into first nations reserve, you don't go through UK customs.

Show threadChris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman with respect, I think First Nations disagree. As far as they are concerned, they decide who they talk to because they are the original signers of the treaty, not the Canadian gov.
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@chris @pinhman If you have a treaty that guarantees X, and a new landlord says it will honour the treaty and guarantee X, then you don't have much of a choice.

Where there can be a fight if if first nations argue they are not part of Alberta and thus remain part of Canada when Alberta separates. And that causes a whole hell of a lot of problems for all those "unceeded territory".

Need to check constitution act to see if Alberta's boundaries exclude first nations under separate treaty

Show threadChris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman First Nations are the landlord.
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@chris @pinhman You made me to it !
Alberta Act

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/constitution/lawreg-loireg/p1t121.html

The Alberta Act, 1905, 4-5 Edw. VII, c. 3 (Can.)

An Act to establish and provide for the Government of the Province of Alberta.

British North America Act passed by UK Parliament.
geographical boundaries do not exclude first nationsl and, so they are part of Alberta.

Paragraph 16 deals with laws existing prior to Alberta being created.

Part I: The Alberta Act - Enactment No. 12

Final Report of the French Constitutional Drafting Committee

Show threadAccount has moved4d ago

@jfmezei

What if the other party is a raging racist that hates your guts? Does that not enter into the equation?

@chris @pinhman

Show threadGordon J Holtslander4d ago
@jfmezei @chris The First Nations and Alberta hold no agreements, the treaties supercede Alberta. It has no authority to “take the treaties” unless the First Nations agree to this first. Alberta did not exist prior to Canada and the treaties.
Show threadRichard Nairn4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman @chris No, the treaties predate Alberta and were not made with Alberta. They are made with the crown. The First Nations have already made their position clear.
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@RichardNairn @pinhman @chris Like with Québec, Alberta separation won't happen, but Danielle J Smith is intent on wasting mushc time on issue which forces cogent debate on the legalities and process of separation.

The "yes" campaign will run on emotions and disinformation, and it is up to the no campain to get trhe hard facts to prove it is not to Alberta's advantage.

If the "no" focuses on issues that are easy to solve, it will backfire and yes will win.

Show threadRichard Nairn4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman @chris She will keep it going cause that’s what her base wants. It doesn’t have to be realistic. She is populist…
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@RichardNairn @pinhman @chris If Alberta were to overwhlemingly vote "yes" on separation, you'll find first nations willing to accept transfer of treaty to Alberta in exchange for a few goodies not provided by feds like drinking water etc.

Prior to referendum, one needs to weed out political posturing against it from realities should it go through

Show threadRichard Nairn4d ago
@jfmezei @pinhman @chris I would not bet on First Nations accepting such a transfer of rights.
Show threadGordon J Holtslander4d ago

@jfmezei @RichardNairn @chris From a history of neglect, mis-management and dishonor I doubt First Nations would accept any agreement from Alberta separtists.

Its the separtists that must first make an agreement with the treaty holders.

Or the separtists can try to make the case that international treaties are worthless with international law

Show threadRichard Nairn4d ago
@pinhman @jfmezei @chris The Alberta Act of 1905 established the province but did not devolve the treaties as they pre-existed and are constitutionally protected. Alberta can’t negotiate the treaties.
Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago
@RichardNairn @pinhman @chris as a province, Alberta cannot negotiate the treaties. You are correct. But if Alberta becomes its own country, has happened to Canada, it would inherit its obligations under variety of treaties.
Show threadGordon J Holtslander4d ago

@jfmezei NO!

An Alberta state would have nothing, it inherits nothing, it is owed nothing. It did not exist as anything but a territory of Canada that was granted provincial status.

Prior to that, what is now labelled Alberta, was lived on and managed by First Nations that existed long before Canada itself existed.

It would exist from the generosity of Canadians and First Nations.

This new state would be dependent on international cooperation and support, while it works to deny the obligations it has to international law.

Show threadMarty B4d ago
@pinhman @jfmezei Let's hope it never comes to this.
Show threadAnti Faisisteach Saebhiar4d ago
@MartyB4 @pinhman @jfmezei Truly. An "independent" Alberta would quickly become a vasal of the US. All they would own is self pwn.
Show threadChris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸4d ago

@jfmezei @RichardNairn @pinhman i don't think so. And I think this line of reasoning is disrespectful.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9g4dpjwgvo

King expressed 'concern' over Alberta separatists, say First Nations chiefs after meeting

Indigenous leaders made Charles aware of the "threat" posed by the movement during a meeting in London, they say.

Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@pinhman @chris @RichardNairn key phrase: Those treaty rights are protected by the Canadian constitution, which recognises and affirms them.

The king of Canada has interest in ensuring Canada follows its laws. Hence the meeting. But at best he would suggest thé Canadian government ensure the treaty is upheld. The treaty may have been signed by UK government back when Canada was a mere British territory, but is is now a Canadian treaty.

Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago
@chris @RichardNairn @pinhman Via Rail is a crown corporation yet not owned not controlled by the king. The term crown is used to refer to stuff owned by or obligations held by the country , not the parliament. But parliament is responsible for managing/upholding those assets and obligations.
Show threadPaul Turnbull has moved.🇨🇦4d ago

@jfmezei Alberta is not going to vote to separate. Support for separatism in Alberta is far lower than in Quebec.

@RichardNairn @pinhman @chris

Show threadJean-François Mezei4d ago

@pinhman @chris

1980 question in alt text of image. Basically "we porposo following stuff, do you give us mandate to negotiate it with Canada and hold second referendum to enact our independance?

1995 question in alt text of image 2.
: Do you want Québec to become sovereign after having offered a new trade/political deal wth Canada?