Mastodawn

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)2d ago

@chris Some form of PR would be awesome for Canada. I didn’t realize it hadn’t happened since y’all are often ahead of us.

@jackyan NOPE. i wish. BC got the closest way back in the 2000s but it was scuttled by the BC Liberal government of the day when they realized they didn't actually want it to happen and the status quo powers have poisoned every subsequent effort since.

Sieva 🚴🚇🏙️🌹2d ago

@chris @jackyan Hopefully the next attempt is going to happen soon and be successful!
https://www.fairvote.ca/11/09/2025/94-of-presenters-to-bc-electoral-reform-committee-recommend-proportional-representation/

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)1d ago

@Anibyl @chris I hope so! I believe it was a citizen-initiated referendum that got ours into play.

Patrick Lam

2d ago

@jackyan @chris another area where NZ is ahead of Canada: disability strategy (though the acceptable standard of health required for immigration is able-ist).

These things do migrate between countries, but proportional representation is a tough one.

felix 2d ago

@chris Ranked ballots at least would have led to more NDP votes in the last election, because no would-be NDP voters would have voted Liberal strategically.

If we do go PR, it should be with a ranked ballot, so people can vote for who they want without risk of "wasting" their vote.

Having read your reasons, your beef seems to be with single-MP ridings, not with ranked ballots themselves!

@felix ranked-voting (aka "majoritarian” ballots) is only a slight improvement, and can sometimes make things much worse in our FPTP system by elevating 2nd choices and disappearing people's first choice.

Ranked balloting is too often used as a stand-in for proportional representation, which it certainly is not.

I believe most, and certainly the best, forms of PR include ranked ballots, but I would also not be against a form of PR that did not rank.

The fundamental unfairness and undemocratic nature of our system is the disconnect between votes cast and the number of seats in the House.

BlueDot 2d ago

@chris @felix

You're right, ranked choice voting doesn't automatically deliver proportional representation.

Multi-member districts AND ranked choice ballots, would. Then, in an example district with 5 seats, any faction with 20% support would be guaranteed a seat.

I say "faction" deliberately, because it wouldn't have to be a party at all. My faction could be people of any party who think rural issues are most important, or people from the western end of the district, or the vegans.

@BlueDot @felix yup, though in most national systems that "faction" is mitigated by a requirement to get at least 3-5% of the national vote to qualify for representation inside the national house.

There are many ways to do it and there should be a citizen's assembly informed by experts to come up with a solution particular for Canada.

@chris Québec has 78 ridings. Canada has 343.

NDP had 342 candidates in 342 ridings.
Bloc had 78 candidates in 78 ridings.

Canada has 343 separate elections, on for each riding. We don't elect a prime minister, we elect a representative of our riding to the house of commons.

Average electors in each riding is 121,891.

NDP: 1.2 million votes in 342 ridings = 3508 votes per riding or 2.8% of vote.
Bloc 1.2 million votes in 78 ridings = 15,384 votes per riding or 12.6% of votes.

@jfmezei correct. but in a way you highlight my point:

Why did the NDP get 6 seats, rather than 10? (3% of 342)
Why did the Bloc get 22 seats, rather than 10? (12% of 78 ridings?)

None of it makes sense because all First Past the Post systems are skewed. We need a proportional system.

@chris Block got 22 of 78 seats because Bloc is very popular in certain regions and won big there, and got almost nothing elsewhere. So averaging votes per every riding is not right.

Where NDP was second, if ranked ballots happened, they may have been first of most choose NDP as first and Libs as second to prevent Poilievre. from winning.

@chris Because we have parliementary democracy, each riding needs to present one MP that represents that riding. Giving a party some "free" seats so they get better representation based on national vote (ag NDP getting 12% of seats because nationally they got 12% of votes) breaks parliementary system.

Who chooses that NDP MP that gets placed in the House to reach that 12%, and whom does that MP represent?

Amgine 1d ago

@jfmezei @chris

Maybe ask the EU Parliament?

@chris Ranked ballots don't *fix* the problem but greatly reduce the problem when you have more than 2 parties.

Ranked ballots remove the need for strategic voting as happened last election where Canada decided to block Polievre at all costs.

You can vote NDP as first choice with Libs as backup 2nd choice and still ensure Poliievre doesn't get in. And in ridings where lots of people secretely wear orange underwear, those votes will results in more NDP candidates winning.

@jfmezei i tend to disagree on fixing the problem at all. There have been provinces that have attempted the switch to ranked ballots. They reverted…

leastaction 2d ago

@chris What the Liberals understand by ranked ballot yields practically the same result as FPTP. That was the reason Trudeau reneged on his promise when it became evident people wanted PR. But thee are other methods that are proportional.

Amgine 2d ago

@chris

As I understand it, ranked ballots reinforce the two-party non-representative centre-left vs centre-right duopoly.

So, I am not bothering.