SteveMar 14
Quinn Norton

Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.

It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.

We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.

There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.

Mar 14 at 9:34amWeb
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 14
The rest of world never sees the poor and desperate America, they mostly stay in the decently rich bits of New York or California, and have no idea what a "food desert" is.
Show threadgenehackMar 14
@quinn or if they do manage to bumble their way into one, nobody back home believes them about how they exist.
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 14
@genehack fuckin true man
Show threadThe DoctorMar 14
@quinn @genehack Can unfortunately confirm.
Show threadKent Navalesi ☕️Mar 15
@drwho @quinn @genehack Can also confirm.
Show threadrag. Gustavino BevilacquaMar 14

@quinn

I often cite this article you wrote in 2013 to show the dark side of the U.S..
I guess things are even worse, now.

https://medium.com/quinn-norton/the-values-of-money-f3db7e13e6e3

The Values of Money

Bitcoin, Money, and Datalove, Part One

Medium
Show threadNick Silkey 📻 N5ILK 🪓🪵 🪣💧Mar 14
@GustavinoBevilacqua @quinn 👋 thanks for sharing this! Parts one and two were great reads. Did a part three ever come to be? 👀
Show threads1m0n4Mar 14

@nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua @quinn

Remove the admiration for the self-made man and the other part is painfully true for any European country I've lived in.

[The long admired idea of the “self-made man” isn't self-made because he's built the strong and loyal social connections that will support him, defend him, and turn to him for wisdom and affection throughout his long and social life.]

Here we just hypocritically pretend it doesn't work this way.

Show threadBenjamin Sonntag-KingMar 15
@s1m0n4 @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua @quinn for the parts of France I know about (basically Paris and a some secluded village in the East and North) I would disagree. The social fabric is very different.
People are less isolated even when going middle class.
But solidarity looks weaker here, even within the poor people.
Show threads1m0n4Mar 15
@benjamin @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua @quinn we agree to disagree. #France has a publicly-supported private school system with not other function than creating a social network among certain circles.
People send their kids to these semi-private schools to create a social status, to let them have a certain kind of friends.
And while public schools consistently lose students because of the fertility drop, private schools don't.
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@s1m0n4 @benjamin @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua lol no. Imagine having no access to healthcare, that was most of my life. Plus homelessness while working full time. I could go on...
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@s1m0n4 @benjamin @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua oops sorry, I replied to the wrong post and can't find the right one now 😬
Show threads1m0n4Mar 15
@quinn @benjamin @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua Yes, I was only referring to the social network part. Free or accessible healthcare makes a big difference indeed!
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@s1m0n4 @benjamin @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua i'm even wonding if i'm on the right thread fork, lots of replies are interestingly difficult on masto? or maybe i'm not entirely awake yet
Show threads1m0n4Mar 15

@quinn @benjamin @nicksilkey @GustavinoBevilacqua

Maybe you intended to reply to this?
https://mastodon.top/@D_cence/116227910589329942

Or this other toot?
https://tweesecake.social/@vol4life8657/116228161423758435

The way answers are nested depends on the app/webapp you use to access Mastodon.

Show threadQuinn Norton4d ago
@s1m0n4 oh I think you're right, that's probably the one.
Show threadPetra van CronenburgMar 14
@GustavinoBevilacqua thanks for the link! @quinn
Show threadChris Ford Mar 14
@quinn Hollywood plays a big part too.
Show threadhiiamfrompolandMar 14
@cford @quinn
well we had The Wire available here in Europe
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@hiiamfrompoland @cford the wire is so good! But precious few Europeans can follow a bmore accent 😂
Show threadMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦Mar 15

@quinn fuuuuuuck…

@hiiamfrompoland @cford

Show threadhiiamfrompolandMar 15
@rysiek @quinn @cford shieeeeeeeeeeet
Show threadClaraBlackInkMar 14

@quinn Americans also often don't travel within our own country.

One of my current neighbors thinks she would need pepper spray to travel abroad and she's disinterested in traveling more than a state or two away from home. She's so extremely angry but the other neighbors are so sweet to her. The fear has her trapped in this small corner of life and the smallness of her life has her angry, resentful, and clingy.

Folks have ideas about the other states informed by tv and news.

Show threadClaraBlackInkMar 14

@quinn The broader world is as foreign to many Americans as California is to Florida or Utah is to New York.

Its an important part of understanding and facing our challenges.

Most folks aren't so different but the belief that they are makes them coil up into tiny worlds and tiny lives, fearful of every possible source of joy and thus angry at every possible theft of joy that's within that tiny worldview.

Show threadThe DoctorMar 14
@clarablackink @quinn Don't forget taking shit for traveling overseas. I'll never forget that.
Show threadcwicseolforMar 14
@drwho @clarablackink @quinn Yeah, the “very different worlds” experience of having some mentors see my semester in China as upwardly-mobile and career-making and having some relatives decide then and there I was forever after a brainwashed commie (and I’d still have *identified as a republican* at the time.) But a lot of left-wing folks of my acquaintance decided I must have become a converted communist on exactly the same evidence. The profundity of black and white thinking and in-group vs. out-group sentiment based in narrowcasting informational control even twenty years ago was bad, and now it’s positively horrific. It’s *intended* to replace the educational negotiations of diverse community perspectives with kneejerk reactions to team colors.
Show threadThe DoctorMar 14

@cwicseolfor @clarablackink @quinn I was told that I "was getting above my station and needed to learn a few lessons."

I told my relatives that it was a conference for work when I lived in DC and suddenly that was okay.

Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@drwho @clarablackink it took me years and so much effort and money to get my first passport. They did not make it easy to escape America
Show threadThe DoctorMar 15
@quinn @clarablackink My mom never managed to. Something was always wrong in her paperwork.
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@drwho @clarablackink my birth certificate had no name on it.
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@drwho @clarablackink I managed to get my paperwork sorted by enlisting in the navy
Show threadmoondog548Mar 15
@clarablackink
This whole thread has so much #sooth.
@quinn
Show threadJess👾Mar 14
@clarablackink @quinn I had a friend who lived in a major city in Texas who was afraid of NYC and convinced you'd be immediately mugged or pickpocketed if you went there. The man has traveled to many places including tourist destinations in Mexico but somehow had NYC framed as a boogie man...
Show threadinaMar 14

@JessTheUnstill
@clarablackink @quinn

i live in houston and it's always funny to hear texans talk about the east and west coasts as these terrible places while turning a blind eye to all the gun violence that happens here

Show threadJess👾Mar 14
@3am @clarablackink @quinn and it's not even a "oh there's brown/Black people there" necessarily. Whites aren't even a majority in Texas anymore. I guess it's just The Liberals
Show threadSolithaMar 14

@JessTheUnstill @3am @clarablackink @quinn When I (native Texan) moved to California, friends/family were all like, oh you'll get red paint thrown at you if you wear leather, or you'll have to get your car's exhaust completely redone, or the taxes there are out of control.

What I found is that CA news is heavily spun in TX, and TX news is... just as bad or worse than presented in CA.

Show threadinaMar 14

@solitha
@JessTheUnstill @clarablackink @quinn

lol, its the opposite for me, i grew up in ca and later moved to tx

and it surprised me how there were no sidewalks in most places, and how several high schools had daycares for the teen moms to use 😬

Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@JessTheUnstill @clarablackink oh the NYC is hell trope. It was! In the 80s. Now it's one of the safer mega cities.
Show threadThe DoctorMar 14
@clarablackink @quinn Many of us have to choose between "visit the next city" or "lose a sick day."
Show threadBill Woodcock6d ago
@clarablackink @quinn

As an American living in France, I'm constantly being asked by Americans if I'm safe. Like, because of the constant rioting that they believe must be worse here than in the US. I have, a few times, tried to figure out specifically where the supposed riots are, and gotten on my bicycle to go check them out. I haven't actually found one yet. Each time that I've had time to try to track the story back, it turns into Russian disinfo ops and Fox News trying to perpetuate American fear.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEMar 14
@quinn What's a "food desert"? My wife has on business trips to the USA stayed in neighbourhoods where it's impossible to buy what we in Europe would regard as real food - the only thing on offer is (extremely) junk "food" that is completely incapable of sustaining normal life. Is that what "food desert" means?
Show threadCassandrichMar 14
@TimWardCam @quinn AIUI a "food desert" is a place where it's impossible to get to a place to buy basic grocery items without long distance drive by a car you may not have.
Show threadusspacenutMar 14
@dalias @TimWardCam @quinn yep. There are some maps of this in the US but here’s an explainer for it https://gisportal.ers.usda.gov/portal/apps/experiencebuilder/experience?id=a53ebd7396cd4ac3a3ed09137676fd40
Experience

Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEMar 14
@dalias @quinn That would count, then, if all the local walkable shops only sell junk.
Show threadDeadTOm Mar 14
@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn Most neighborhoods in the US don't even have walkable shops anymore. They've been squeezed out by ridiculous zoning laws, mostly created at the behest of large chains like Walmart and Costco. If I want a loaf of bread, I have to travel a minimum of three miles to pay $7.50 for a small loaf, or go five miles to get a decent loaf at a decent price. And what we call "bread" here is mostly fillers and preservatives, effectively poisoning us.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEMar 14
@deadtom @dalias @quinn I have to walk half a mile to buy decent bread (I'm pretty sure that my nearest shop, which I boycott for other reasons, only has wrapped sliced bread that tastes of blotting paper). If I want anything more exotic than that I have to walk or cycle about a mile and a half (and I've got a choice of directions to do that). (But mostly we make our own bread.)
Show threadSzabó Em, Enigma He-Art Director Mar 14
@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn I have family in places where the closest "local junk" is a 10+ mile walk away (meaning quality food is even further). We have massive problems with our food supply and infrastructure :/
Show threadNeil KandalgaonkarMar 14
@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn Instead of imagining a little town with bad local shops imagine that you live on the side of the A12. The nearest place that would accept money in exchange for any goods and/or services is a 45 minute walk away on streets with no sidewalk. You decide to walk it anyway, and cars stop to ask if you’re lost or in trouble. Your destination is a store that only sells highly processed food in massive packages. After you buy five things it’s far too heavy to carry home.
Show threadBill Woodcock6d ago
@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn

No, that's not what she said. She said "impossible to get to a place to buy basic grocery items without long distance drive." She didn't say that there were "local walkable shops." Local walkable shops is a thing that exists in Europe, but not in most of the US.
Show threadQuinn Norton6d ago
@woody @TimWardCam @dalias i mean they exist in a lot of cities, but you pay a premium to live in a place where you can walk to a decent grocery store. Basically, if you can walk somewhere and get fresh fruit and veg, you're already rich. (there's a few exceptions, but they're generally being evicted and pushed out of cities.)
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE6d ago
@quinn @woody @dalias Yes. The scenario my wife has encountered is that you can walk to a grocery store, but it doesn't count as "decent" and doesn't sell weird stuff like fruit and veg.
Show threadBill Woodcock6d ago
@quinn @TimWardCam @dalias

That seems like an accurate summary. I was trying to test it by thinking of counter-examples, and there are certainly some dense ethnic enclaves in which (if you speak Amharic or Spanish or Hmong or whatever) you could certainly find fresh food grown locally at affordable prices, walking-distance from affordable (if probably very dense, and perhaps not code-compliant) housing. But those are very much the exceptions... islands-within-islands.
Show threadQuinn NortonMar 15
@dalias @TimWardCam but you can usually buy cheap and unhealthy food, like gas station beef jerky and candy. Have lived on that myself!
Show threadAnneHMar 14
@TimWardCam @quinn I've heard it used in uk for eg estates where the local supermarket has no fresh fruit or vegetables.
Show threadKyleMar 14
@quinn for decades your TV overwhelmingly presented an affluent white suburban middle class to be the normal way everyone lives. It took a very long time for media with a different perspective to reach us in any volume
Show threadNeil E. HodgesMar 14
@quinn @kyle_pegasus The longer I live in this walkable city, the more I outright resent and detest my suburban upbringing. Never again. >:(
Show threadeestileib (she/hers)Mar 16

@tk @quinn @kyle_pegasus

Yup, first time doing full city living myself and clearly I was built for this all along.

I know there are plenty of people who like solitude, I'm just not one of em.

Show threadKyleMar 16
@eestileib @tk @quinn my point was more in line with what Quinn was saying, in that america is covered in desperate poverty that was for years kept hidden from the wider world, not that you like walking five minutes to buy a bottle of milk
Show thread🏳️‍⚧️PepperTheVixen🦯Mar 14
@quinn Greetings from California! When I visited other parts of the US, I experienced culture shock that I was not prepared to experience within my own country. Even in the poorer parts of California, lifestyles are dramatically different. Head out to other states and you see even more of it. The US is 50 countries in a trench coat
Show threadinaMar 14

@PepperTheVixen
@quinn

i'll never forget the time my mother (who grew up in a poor farming community in argentina) told me about traveling in the deep south with my father. she was absolutely shocked at the poverty she saw