Christine Lemmer-Webbersystemd goes AI agent slopware https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/c1d4d5fd9ae56dc07377ef63417f461a0f4a4346/AGENTS.md
has slop documentation now too
bitspookOne more reason to use Guix + Shepherd!
Hannah (With a snake problem 🐍)@cwebber Hmmm..... Hannah should really get to learn more about Guix again... Really liked writing Scheme code for some strange reason!
Though the support and availability for many packages is worse in the package repository in Guix... 
(And there are certain rumors around GNU that would be too long to elaborate on... but they are really something that sound off-putting... 
)
Though the support and availability for many packages is worse in the package repository in Guix...
(And there are certain rumors around GNU that would be too long to elaborate on... but they are really something that sound off-putting...
) 
Violet
Ensō
Nelson@cwebber Will GNU Guix be able to keep LLMs out of Shepherd and Hurd? I'm also worried about the Linux kernel potentially slopifying.
@skyfaller Linux already is slopifying
@cwebber Regardless of how quickly the Linux kernel is slopifying (you probably know better than I do), it doesn't really matter if the alternatives are not able to draw hard lines and keep the slop out; they'll just slopify slightly slower. Is Guix up to the task? Will there be alternatives, or will every option be slop?
I just haven't seen an LLM policy yet from Guix and it's making me nervous.
Niklas@cwebber @skyfaller but Hurd is too, right? https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2026-02/msg00133.html
@skyfaller @ytvwld Hurd is not Guix, but is one of the kernel options available for Guix.
@civodul has loosely floated the idea on here of having a "no AI codegen contributions in Guix" policy (and I think that should extend to the Shepherd). I'm for it.
@skyfaller @ytvwld @civodul I think an easier option: a one year moritorium on AI based contributions, while what that means shakes out, set to be re-evaluated.
@cwebber @ytvwld @civodul I can see how a one year moratorium might be politically easier, but I fear it would just mean I spend a lot of effort moving my systems to Guix, only for it to immediately slopify at the end of the year so I have to move everything again. I'd rather have more confidence in my time/effort investment.
In the absence of a clear line I would probably explore other distros that have more solid stances.
@skyfaller @cwebber @civodul personally, I think I'll just stay on Ubuntu 24.04 for the next years. If we still have computers by 2034, the AI hype will hopefully be over.
davidak@skyfaller it does not look like you will be able to run a computer without LLM generated code soon. especially when you want to do things with it (like playing games on Steam or using Davinci Resolve)
what positive impact does it have when you stop using linux and systemd? and in practice, your experience will probably be a lot worse when you use niche and less mature software like BSD and GUIX with Hurd and Shepherd
that seem not to bring freedom and empowerment
@davidak If I can't run a computer without LLMs I will throw my computer in the river and finally be free. People lived without computers before, we can do it again. Get out of my mentions and touch grass
Jigen@skyfaller Can you cut to the chase, because it seems you need to do this immediately.
Stilic 🇫🇷@davidak @skyfaller @cwebber @ytvwld @civodul I don't use systemd yet I get a good experience
Take a look at Chimera (especially KDE) and come back to me once you found a groundbreaking issue that hinders Chimera's maturity and stability
Take a look at Chimera (especially KDE) and come back to me once you found a groundbreaking issue that hinders Chimera's maturity and stability
@davidak @skyfaller @cwebber @ytvwld @civodul even if the software I use is niche, that does NOT mean it's less reliable
Even on FreeBSD it's easy to setup a desktop, based on my experience
Even on FreeBSD it's easy to setup a desktop, based on my experience
@davidak @skyfaller @cwebber @ytvwld @civodul What's sure is that it still empowers me anyway: I can choose what runs on my devices and make sure they run according to my vision of things
PostmarketOS is also a good example of how to make a user-friendly distro while using lesser known tools
PostmarketOS is also a good example of how to make a user-friendly distro while using lesser known tools
@stilic Chimera uses Linux, which has also LLM generated code
so it wouldn't be an option for someone not wanting that
@davidak I don't see how that matters if someone can **only** use Linux and nothing else
No one said they want to get rid of *everything* that has LLM-generated code
Most of us are already doing our best to reduce the amount of software we use that has this kind of stuff
No one said they want to get rid of *everything* that has LLM-generated code
Most of us are already doing our best to reduce the amount of software we use that has this kind of stuff
yoasif@davidak @skyfaller @cwebber @ytvwld @civodul If Linux and systemd aren't about copyleft anymore, we have already lost. Why NOT improve the BSDs if all code is going to be pirated anyway?
Is this what open source evangelists really want?
@yoasif Linux has a desktop market share of about 3%
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
it only becomes more interesting to users, because gaming works better thanks to valve, windows 10 is EOL and windows 11 does not work on their computer and is a privacy nightmare. but linux itself seem not particularly interesting to the average computer user, despite all the effort of the free software community
it is not reasonable to give up on it. BSD is way more behind as desktop OS
@davidak I don't understand what you mean. Linux had less than 1% of marketshare when people began using it and developing it further.
Why do we think Linux has gotten more traction than the BSDs, when the BSDs are more "free"? Probably because they are less free, due derivative works required to be OSS.
With LLMs, that deal goes away; the PD code inserted into Linux and other apps can be put anywhere and doesn't remain exclusive to Linux. So there's no particular draw to it.
@yoasif i care about providing people freedom and empower them with free software
and i think we can achieve this better by continuing to improve linux, especially it's UX and quality and not give up on it because of some LLM generated code
current linux systems are already pretty good. SteamOS will probably be good enough for most gamers, once it's released for PCs and anticheat is solved. For the average PC user, linux probably provides the features, but still has issues that make them leave
@davidak If PD code is inserted into Linux, that same code can be inserted into BSD without any requirement of reciprocity.
The value add that copyleft licenses brought to Linux will leak out from the lack of reciprocal donations of code, all while the human contributed code is *also* pirated to go into the same models to generate further public domain code.
I don't understand what the *point* of staying with Linux is, if BSDs can grab all of the same improvements without reciprocity.
1. but do BSDs copy LLM generated code from Linux?
FreeBSD and NetBSD are banning LLM-generated code
https://www.freebsd.org/status/report-2025-04-2025-06/#_freebsd_core_team
https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html
2. it's not the LLM-generated code that makes linux great
3. i don't think your point with the license is a big reason for people choosing Linux over BSD nowadays. it's the human effort that went into it over all the years
my point is, choosing BSD over Linux now would be a step back. even as foundation for our future best OS
@davidak On point #3, you don't think it mattered when it gained the initial momentum?
I'm saying that if copyleft is not an operative difference between Linux and BSD, nothing prevents closure of Linux features, along with the reciprocity from works inserted into Linux remain copylefted in derivative works - the long term advantage afforded by copyleft begins to disappear.
You are saying that there's no point moving to BSD now - you would have said the same when I moved to Linux when I did.
@yoasif i don't think your point is relevant for the question if people should use linux
especially because the current topic is that more and more open source projects use or allow LLM-generated code and your point is that BSD could do that too (but won't)
i switched to linux when it was user-friendly enough for me (by having the Pantheon Desktop) from Mac OS X and Windows, because it is Free Software. I tried FreeBSD once, but the installation failed. i guess you did it for the same reason?
@davidak The question is relevant for people to continue to use Linux, if they believe that the copyleft license was a value add over the comparatively more permissive BSD licenses.
Usability was obviously a concern when I first played with Linux, but the copyleft aspect of the license was a real draw - ensuring that the work I was using and helping improve (via bug reporting, support, community) would remain open.
@yoasif for choosing an operating system it is way more relevant what it can practically do
and you can do more with linux than BSD and the experience is a lot more polished
giving that up is not a reasonable choice. that is my point
@davidak You act like you are talking to someone who wasn't involved in open source when it was far less polished.
Linux used to "practically do" far less than what it can do now -- I used to run cdparanoia to do audio CD ripping because you couldn't use EAC in wine at the time.
Gaming wasn't really available, aside from open source games.
So you aren't telling me anything I don't already know.
Haelwenn /элвэн/ 
@cwebber @skyfaller @ytvwld @civodul Would be great if it could extend to other GNU projects like gcc, binutils, autotools, … as well otherwise we're in trouble.
(as LLVM got LLM slopified, because of course it did)
(as LLVM got LLM slopified, because of course it did)
Ludovic Courtès@cwebber @ytvwld @skyfaller I’m planning to submit a Guix Consensus Document (GCD) on this topic (waiting a little bit notably to avoid interfering with the GCDs currently being discussed).
Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️@ytvwld @cwebber @skyfaller
the these projects saw a challenge capable of killing the entire open source movement and decided to join the fight on the side that's against open source huh
the these projects saw a challenge capable of killing the entire open source movement and decided to join the fight on the side that's against open source huh
Springy Owlbear 
@cwebber I'm more of an OpenRC or dinit kind of Owlbear personally. Also, Guix doesn't support my laptop's hardware (imma be a lot more careful about my next laptop…)
(edited to change NY to my. Thanks autocorrect, you're really worth the hassle...)
Gábor Udvari@cocaine_owlbear @cwebber Guix has channels for third-party packages, kinda like Ubuntu PPAs or Arch AUR, but more decentralized. There is one such channel with firmwares and vanilla kernels called nonguix. Theres is a LiveCD maintained by @hako with that channel already enabled, you can try it out with your current laptop:
@gaborudvari @cwebber @hako by Nethys, I did not know this existed. Thank you, kind internet stranger!
alys
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