Christine Lemmer-Webbersystemd goes AI agent slopware https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/c1d4d5fd9ae56dc07377ef63417f461a0f4a4346/AGENTS.md
has slop documentation now too
One more reason to use Guix + Shepherd!
Nelson@cwebber Will GNU Guix be able to keep LLMs out of Shepherd and Hurd? I'm also worried about the Linux kernel potentially slopifying.
@skyfaller Linux already is slopifying
Niklas@cwebber @skyfaller but Hurd is too, right? https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2026-02/msg00133.html
@skyfaller @ytvwld Hurd is not Guix, but is one of the kernel options available for Guix.
@civodul has loosely floated the idea on here of having a "no AI codegen contributions in Guix" policy (and I think that should extend to the Shepherd). I'm for it.
@skyfaller @ytvwld @civodul I think an easier option: a one year moritorium on AI based contributions, while what that means shakes out, set to be re-evaluated.
@cwebber @ytvwld @civodul I can see how a one year moratorium might be politically easier, but I fear it would just mean I spend a lot of effort moving my systems to Guix, only for it to immediately slopify at the end of the year so I have to move everything again. I'd rather have more confidence in my time/effort investment.
In the absence of a clear line I would probably explore other distros that have more solid stances.
davidak@skyfaller it does not look like you will be able to run a computer without LLM generated code soon. especially when you want to do things with it (like playing games on Steam or using Davinci Resolve)
what positive impact does it have when you stop using linux and systemd? and in practice, your experience will probably be a lot worse when you use niche and less mature software like BSD and GUIX with Hurd and Shepherd
that seem not to bring freedom and empowerment
yoasif@davidak @skyfaller @cwebber @ytvwld @civodul If Linux and systemd aren't about copyleft anymore, we have already lost. Why NOT improve the BSDs if all code is going to be pirated anyway?
Is this what open source evangelists really want?
@yoasif Linux has a desktop market share of about 3%
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
it only becomes more interesting to users, because gaming works better thanks to valve, windows 10 is EOL and windows 11 does not work on their computer and is a privacy nightmare. but linux itself seem not particularly interesting to the average computer user, despite all the effort of the free software community
it is not reasonable to give up on it. BSD is way more behind as desktop OS
@davidak I don't understand what you mean. Linux had less than 1% of marketshare when people began using it and developing it further.
Why do we think Linux has gotten more traction than the BSDs, when the BSDs are more "free"? Probably because they are less free, due derivative works required to be OSS.
With LLMs, that deal goes away; the PD code inserted into Linux and other apps can be put anywhere and doesn't remain exclusive to Linux. So there's no particular draw to it.
@yoasif i care about providing people freedom and empower them with free software
and i think we can achieve this better by continuing to improve linux, especially it's UX and quality and not give up on it because of some LLM generated code
current linux systems are already pretty good. SteamOS will probably be good enough for most gamers, once it's released for PCs and anticheat is solved. For the average PC user, linux probably provides the features, but still has issues that make them leave
@davidak If PD code is inserted into Linux, that same code can be inserted into BSD without any requirement of reciprocity.
The value add that copyleft licenses brought to Linux will leak out from the lack of reciprocal donations of code, all while the human contributed code is *also* pirated to go into the same models to generate further public domain code.
I don't understand what the *point* of staying with Linux is, if BSDs can grab all of the same improvements without reciprocity.
1. but do BSDs copy LLM generated code from Linux?
FreeBSD and NetBSD are banning LLM-generated code
https://www.freebsd.org/status/report-2025-04-2025-06/#_freebsd_core_team
https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html
2. it's not the LLM-generated code that makes linux great
3. i don't think your point with the license is a big reason for people choosing Linux over BSD nowadays. it's the human effort that went into it over all the years
my point is, choosing BSD over Linux now would be a step back. even as foundation for our future best OS
@davidak On point #3, you don't think it mattered when it gained the initial momentum?
I'm saying that if copyleft is not an operative difference between Linux and BSD, nothing prevents closure of Linux features, along with the reciprocity from works inserted into Linux remain copylefted in derivative works - the long term advantage afforded by copyleft begins to disappear.
You are saying that there's no point moving to BSD now - you would have said the same when I moved to Linux when I did.
@yoasif i don't think your point is relevant for the question if people should use linux
especially because the current topic is that more and more open source projects use or allow LLM-generated code and your point is that BSD could do that too (but won't)
i switched to linux when it was user-friendly enough for me (by having the Pantheon Desktop) from Mac OS X and Windows, because it is Free Software. I tried FreeBSD once, but the installation failed. i guess you did it for the same reason?
@davidak The question is relevant for people to continue to use Linux, if they believe that the copyleft license was a value add over the comparatively more permissive BSD licenses.
Usability was obviously a concern when I first played with Linux, but the copyleft aspect of the license was a real draw - ensuring that the work I was using and helping improve (via bug reporting, support, community) would remain open.
@yoasif for choosing an operating system it is way more relevant what it can practically do
and you can do more with linux than BSD and the experience is a lot more polished
giving that up is not a reasonable choice. that is my point
@davidak You act like you are talking to someone who wasn't involved in open source when it was far less polished.
Linux used to "practically do" far less than what it can do now -- I used to run cdparanoia to do audio CD ripping because you couldn't use EAC in wine at the time.
Gaming wasn't really available, aside from open source games.
So you aren't telling me anything I don't already know.
@davidak I'm not even saying that people should move to BSD, I just don't think that having to give something up means that moving to another option is not a "reasonable choice."
I think it is reasonable, since I don't think that giving something up means that other options are verboten.
If I thought that, people wouldn't leave Windows, or macOS. Moving between OSes necessarily means that you are giving *something* up.
@yoasif the chance of people switching is higher the less they have to give up. that's why most computer users don't switch from Windows or macOS (79% from StatCounter shared previously)
so i want to improve linux, so they would have to give up less and gain more freedom, independence and privacy
for people using linux now and don't like GenAI, i think switching to BSD or GNU HURD would mean giving up a lot. in case of gaming a full hobby
don't make your life miserable for no real benefit