pascalb
Randahl FinkThose who keep complaining that wind turbines do not work when the winds are not blowing, just realized that oil does not work when the Hormuz Strait is not open.
LAURENOr the oil refineries and fields are on fire or destroyed
Martin Vermeer FCDThank you.
gunstick@noondlyt @randahl
Interesting.
When wind does not blow, you still have solar power.
When sun is not shining you still have wind power.
Only when there is no sun and no wind, then you have no power.
If the strait of Hormuz is closed, you have no power.
If the refineries are on fire you have no power.
If Hormuz is closed and refineries are on fire you have even less power.
🤔
Interesting.
When wind does not blow, you still have solar power.
When sun is not shining you still have wind power.
Only when there is no sun and no wind, then you have no power.
If the strait of Hormuz is closed, you have no power.
If the refineries are on fire you have no power.
If Hormuz is closed and refineries are on fire you have even less power.
🤔
Joseph A di Paolantonio
Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸@randahl I saw someone yesterday say that solar and wind are just as “vulnerable” because so much of it is also shipped through the narrow straits of Malacca(?)…. Ignoring, or ignorant, of the fact that because the energy for renewables actually comes from the sun, only new or replacement solar/wind capacity would potentially be disrupted by this kind of shut down….
The sun would still shine and the wind would still blow, the rivers, magma, and tides would still flow, all no matter how many wars some idiot starts.
sleepy62🍁🛠️ 🖥️ 🔬 🌞
CurtAdams
chris actual@lackattack @randahl ong can I boost this 100 times? :)
Weltbürger 
🇬🇱@chris @randahl and if #trump controls #StraitOfHormuz you have to pay for energy whatever he deserves.
☮ ♥ ♬ 🧑💻
tootbrute
Pseudo NymThat's just crazy. Why, you would need some sort of super fusion reactor safely placed about 90 million miles away for that.
Oh.
Sharif Naas@pseudonym @tootbrute @randahl No, no, that wouldn't work. You'd have to do wireless power transmission. You'd only get a tiny, tiny fraction of the produced power. Completely impractical.
isol@sharif @pseudonym @tootbrute @randahl
What if … we gave eleventy bazillion dollars to Elon, to launch 42 million X-link satellites to completely enclose the reactor and capture all the radiated energy ? 🤔
Zoufalec©️
Magnus Ahltorp
Kai Rüsberg 
@randahl ... but wind keeps coming back, Trump hopefully not.
Mårten Björklund 🇸🇪@randahl To be fair, wind turbines doesn't work when the winds are blowing too hard either.
They need "goldilocks-winds" 🙂
Pete Alex Harris🦡🕸️🌲/∞🪐∫@martenbjorklund @randahl
I assume they're engineered to work within the middle hump of the distribution of windspeeds? You could probably make one that worked in a hurricane, and made a tremendous amount of power, but the economics don't favour one that would be doing nothing 11 months in the year.
I assume they're engineered to work within the middle hump of the distribution of windspeeds? You could probably make one that worked in a hurricane, and made a tremendous amount of power, but the economics don't favour one that would be doing nothing 11 months in the year.
Landa 
@martenbjorklund
To be extra fair, current turbines have cut-off speeds right in the middle of Beaufort 10 (and turbines for hurricane-areas can go higher).
So between that and 3-4m/s as cut-in speed for large turbines, Goldilocks doesn't seem too picky here ;)
UkeleleEric@martenbjorklund @randahl not really. They need anything from a light wind to just below hurricane. And when the wind isn't blowing, there's often sun, and when there's neither, grid-scale batteries are viable and cheap nowadays. (And that's not to include the parts of the world where thermal or hydroelectric or hydro storage or tidal generation is possible.)
martin lentink 🇪🇺 🇺🇦📎@randahl While the wind is still blowing in Danmark and the Netherlands
Ilka 🌐
Linda Rose Smit@randahl and most of those suffering for it are not those people.
Globob
ohir@Globob @randahl
> that wind turbines are not a substitute
Add to this solar and in tandem they are. You can even fill up a tank of the combustion engine car with them. [1][2][3].
In Europe we have enough materials dumped to landfills as waste to build a storage facility with a capacity of over 1 TWh storage. Perpetual batteries technology that is (was) with us for more than 100 years. Was because they unearthed research from early forties of the past century that hinted them how to cripplle those batteries using Ca, Sn, and Al additives since 1975 or so (when the first oil prices peak endangered their bottom).
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7970114/ (open) CO₂ -> CH₄
[2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-023-01314-8 (paywalled) CO₂ -> C₃H₈
[3] https://deltaliquidenergy.com/turning-the-tide-on-co2-emissions-the-path-to-renewable-propane/ [abstract of above]
@ohir @randahl Solar + wind isn’t the answer in Germany or Netherlands according to simple analysis of real-time datasets
https://energyasicit.ca/WindModel/
https://energyasicit.ca/WindModel/
Pb-PbSO₄ batteries 80Wh/dm3, 8kWh/m3, lead: 7kg/dm3, 7t/m3
The suburban mall parking lot of 30x50m stuffed 1.5m under surface with 1m high plates gives 12MWh storage, 10MWh safe.
Highway verge 4m wide with same 1m high plates under give 32MWh per km. You can store 3TWh of above chart under some 100km of your nearest Autobahn unused otherwise grassy verge. If you'd put your battery under sides you could have 3TWh spread over some 50km.
For 3TWh you would need 2.800.000t of lead. Considering current data [1] it would be 15-20 years of the WASTE tailings processing. I.e. getting all that lead off the landfills where it goes now. If copper ore processing would care more about lead output, I think (did not digged enough), we could do such storage in 10 years.
Once again: Pb-PbSO₄ batteries are perpetual. They can last millenia. They excel at short cycles unlike lithium/sodium technology. There is a two magnitudes less toxic waste of their production than with lithium technology. You can regenerate them in-situ in fully automated way (as this is almost pure mechanical process).
And all that lead once sealed in the battery plate/case poses no toxic threat to the environment (unlike the tailings being on the landfill).
@ohir @randahl That 3TWh has essentially only one full discharge cycle per year. At $100/kWh that battery costs $100b for 16.5GW or $6b/GW. From a climate perspective there is a far better use for that wind and solar power than dumping onto a JIT grid. It is called green steel.
https://energyasicit.ca/EnergyVision/
https://energyasicit.ca/EnergyVision/
@Globob @randahl
> green steel
Yes, heavy industry using solar energy is a way to both savings and having environment recuperate a bit. Just we need to get electricity storage awareness higher.
The lead-acid storage is cheapest and cleanest of all. The only "disadvantage" it has that it is not patentable. Hence the long term "lobbying" against. I mean bribery and blackmail that started in mid seventies of the 20th century.
@Globob @randahl
> recommended depth of 50%
Car battery recommended. And true, because car battery plates endure many forces storage batteries do not. Those under the ground will move likely at earthquake time. The numbers I gave account for 80% discharge cycle. In such batteries plate frames are reinforced (thats why 80Wh/dm³ came here, instead of 115Wh/dm³ of contemporary car battery).
> recommended depth of 50%
Car battery recommended. And true, because car battery plates endure many forces storage batteries do not. Those under the ground will move likely at earthquake time. The numbers I gave account for 80% discharge cycle. In such batteries plate frames are reinforced (thats why 80Wh/dm³ came here, instead of 115Wh/dm³ of contemporary car battery).
@ohir @randahl It is worth emphasizing that green steel can use 100% of the solar and wind electrons with zero battery storage. The concept of a virtual wire reduces the grid changes required to almost zero also. Furthermore if one eliminates gas on the grid by overbuilding baseload nuclear the CO2 savings can be amplified by 10 fold. It just requires a mindset change with very little technological change.
https://energyasicit.ca/VirtualWire/
https://energyasicit.ca/VirtualWire/
@Globob @randahl
>...(replying to all three)
We, I specifically, do not talk car batteries. The less the crippled with planned obsolescence additives ones. Data in your counter "arguments" came from such assesments. Try to search real industrial/army data. Not all are buried to the cellars. Not all were burnt. Submarine batteries data are easiest to find.
Direct Industry use of solar energy needs batteries too. Usually Vanadium based ones, because China has it and those batteries have good characteristics as buffers. And direct Industry use is orthogonal to the diffused cheap storage. The ammount of solar energy we can harvest is and always will be magnitudes over our storage capacity. What I am doing is to make others aware about what is possible but got "lobbied" out. Green steel, green concrete, green any other energy intensive industry just adds up to the green kitchen in your home.
simultsop
xs4me2
Lats (314 ppm)@randahl people should be thinking induction cooking and EVs. That is electrify everything. Not that hard to duct down to IKEA pick up a hob.
#electricfyeverything
#electricfyeverything
lucie digitální@luciedigitalni @randahl the IKEA jobs are a single hot plate with a 10A power cord. Got one when there was a scheduling problem installing the final system. Worked really well for a cheap device.
Crissa Kentavr@Lats @luciedigitalni @randahl
Cooking doesn't require alot of energy, unless you're trying to bake; induction wastes so little heat! Tho cooking uses so little gas the stove is my last (tho easy) target to replace. I really want a heat pump!
Cooking doesn't require alot of energy, unless you're trying to bake; induction wastes so little heat! Tho cooking uses so little gas the stove is my last (tho easy) target to replace. I really want a heat pump!
@Crissa @luciedigitalni @randahl if you want to the biggest saving, a heat pump for your hot water is the cheapest way to do it! They are even cost effective in sub zero temperatures.
When talking gas prices, the Australian experience is that there is this standing or connection charge in the bill that you pay regardless of the gas used. It means the best saving is when you convert all the gas appliances to electric.
@Lats @luciedigitalni @randahl
Connection fees aren't high in California but I'm on delivery so it doesn't matter - I'd have to get enough battery for four days in freezing weather which only happens once in a decade (but three times the last) so...
But yeah, I really want a heat pump water heater. Ours is a gas on-demand that has an extra port for recirculating so it could be augmented with another heat source!
Dave Mangot@luciedigitalni @Lats @randahl
Not if they have a battery inside. Just any old outlet will do. You have outdated information.
@luciedigitalni @davemangot @randahl this is what I was referring to. But there are others. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tillreda-portable-induction-cooktop-1-zone-black-30546508/
TILLREDA portable induction cooktop, 1 zone black
TILLREDA portable induction cooktop, 1 zone black This portable cooktop is perfect for smaller kitchens or wherever you need an extra cooking zone. It’s easy to move around and can be stowed away when not in use to free up counter space for other activities.
Linux and praxis: part of the resistance 🇵🇸 ☮️
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