S★m V★rm★RE: https://fosstodon.org/@samvarma/116196836374395901
You know what... reply with album covers that changed your life
Let's go #GenX
Geoff Duncan@samvarma
I'll follow up with another oddball pick. I was that one kid in school who didn't much care for Yes's "breakthrough" 90125—Yesssongs or go home, right?—although a few bits have grown on me. But for some reason I really liked this Yes lineup that was half Yes, all of the Buggles (really!), and sparked off Asia (think Yes sounding like Journey), Rabin-era Yes (think Yes sounding like Journey and Art of Noise), GTR (think Marillion sounding like Journey) and cemented Steve Howe in my mind. I mean, he was already cemented there but this added more superglue.
I'll follow up with another oddball pick. I was that one kid in school who didn't much care for Yes's "breakthrough" 90125—Yesssongs or go home, right?—although a few bits have grown on me. But for some reason I really liked this Yes lineup that was half Yes, all of the Buggles (really!), and sparked off Asia (think Yes sounding like Journey), Rabin-era Yes (think Yes sounding like Journey and Art of Noise), GTR (think Marillion sounding like Journey) and cemented Steve Howe in my mind. I mean, he was already cemented there but this added more superglue.
Steven Woolgar@geoffduncan @samvarma I love love love Drama
@woolie @samvarma
That's not a thing one can often say sincerely, on the internet. ;)
I noticed you're also a Saga person. I didn't learn two-handed tapping from absorbing Van Halen or Steve Hackett (although the latter *very nearly* happened). I first picked it up from Ian Crichton. But more importantly, I internalized a *lot* about cool ways to arrange and record synths in a rock band.
@geoffduncan @woolie You're definitely making the case here
Grogmagog@geoffduncan @woolie @samvarma I never, ever get tired of listening to On The Loose. Great song and it sounds sooo good
@gogmagog
Holds up! My two were Wind Him Up and Pitchman, although Ice Nice on their first album stuck with me too.
Holds up! My two were Wind Him Up and Pitchman, although Ice Nice on their first album stuck with me too.
@geoffduncan @gogmagog my two were….hahahahahah, I don’t have two. I love most of them. 🤣
@geoffduncan @woolie @gogmagog So I'm listening to this (Drama) now. Don't think I've formed an opinion yet, but I feel like I can hear the influence of the drumming in my fave band Spidergawd. I also noticed the meticulous precision, and the almost classical arranging. But so far the through lines have yet to reveal themselves.
@samvarma @geoffduncan @gogmagog Drama took me a while to love. But it is way up there in the pantheon now.
@geoffduncan @woolie @gogmagog Super crazy how their 1971(!) shit sounds so far above their contemporaries. Most the other bands of the era sound primitive in terms of recording quality et cetera, and these guys sound like they're from 10 years in the future
@geoffduncan @woolie @gogmagog Currently really enjoying Fragile. Drama seems disjointed by comparison
@samvarma @woolie @gogmagog
Ha! Every Yes album seems disjointed to me! Particularly Fragile because it screams “Uh we have a deadline and not enough material Rick can you throw in a track from your album, how about that Chet thing Steve does at shows…” “I could do a track that’s all bass overdubs!” “WTH. Only if we call it The Fish.” Etc.
(Squire’s nickname was The Fish because he apparently took enormously long baths. And, ironically, Squire’s later solo album may be the best Yes album that never was.)
Drama *was* put together in a hurry because they were already committed to a tour. You can ev n find the original Buggles version of I Am A Camera out there.
@geoffduncan @woolie @gogmagog I mean is it possible that because they were clearly influenced if not formed by classical and jazz, it might have led to a more naturalistic (therefore timeless) aesthetic when it came to recording? Like more of a documentary style, rather than going for a "sound"
@geoffduncan @woolie @gogmagog Thinking about it I'm definitely getting more the sense that they would sound exactly like this live, and there aren't a million layers of production going on. They recorded performances of their parts, and that's it
@geoffduncan @woolie @gogmagog Chatting with my bass player on Wednesday about how jazz musicians often don't "speak" rock even as they think that it's beneath them. The thing that strikes me about Fragile is we have guys here who completely understand the rock aesthetic and energy, while holding in their brains the capacity to also understand classical and jazz. Pretty fucking amazing to be honest
@samvarma @woolie @gogmagog
My understanding is that's pretty true: there are dubbed guitars, they doubled up vocals, did a few studio tricks (backward piano in Roundabout, along with a "tictac" bass on top of the clicky bass!) Wakeman had had many years of classical training, if I remember, and their sound definitely changed when they brought him in. (He turned down Bowie for Yes!) But that material was written to be performed live. And it changed over time: Heart of the Sunrise got *very* heavy in live performances in ways that aren't reflected on the album, etc.
Anyway: I remember listening to this stuff as a kid and picking bits of it apart note by note to try to understand it: bands like that were the start of my music theory getting beyond I IV V/ ii V I.
Jaycosm🔆@geoffduncan @samvarma @woolie @gogmagog 'Hope you don't mind me commenting. "Magnification" is one of my favs (Anderson, Squire, Howe, White, and orchestration in place of the missing keyboardist) along with the "ABWH" album. I like the Trevor Rabin Yes stuff too. You might be interested in the band Circa - there's a Yes connection in there somewhere... writer, bassist, keyboardist, etc. during a Yes band quarrel, but I don't recall. I like "Valley of the Windmill" album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfrq06jz9oA&list=OLAK5uy_lf6kkHdGno3xuYCscikg0xp0fwSkYObEo&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfrq06jz9oA&list=OLAK5uy_lf6kkHdGno3xuYCscikg0xp0fwSkYObEo&index=2
Silent Resolve
@jay
I'll check it out! I never dove into that particular sector of the Yes-verse, despite having been tangentially adjacent (how's that for a term?) to it for a couple minutes. I want to say Circa eventually developed out of Sherwood's Pink Floyd tribute albums, but I might be misremembering.
I'll check it out! I never dove into that particular sector of the Yes-verse, despite having been tangentially adjacent (how's that for a term?) to it for a couple minutes. I want to say Circa eventually developed out of Sherwood's Pink Floyd tribute albums, but I might be misremembering.
NigelTufnel@geoffduncan @samvarma I saw GTR when they came thru SF Bay Area in 1986, playing the Warfield. Good friend of mine was a HUGE prog fan so this was Rock Royalty but I don’t remember any of it, sorry man! Too young for that to stick.
@NigelTufnel @geoffduncan Dream Theater was my biggest foray into prog, I remember seeing them live for the first time in Munich and being like holy shit it sounds just like the record, then seeing them again six months later in London at the Astoria, and being like yeah holy shit still sounds just like the record, and then again maybe a year later in Los Angeles at the house of blues. (1/2)
And I was like yo this is just boring, it sounds just like the album. The coolest thing that happened was Derek Sherinian strapped on a Les Paul with a shiny silver shirt on for a cover of some 70s rock. The bloom was off the rose after that. (2/2)
@NigelTufnel @geoffduncan
@NigelTufnel @geoffduncan
@samvarma @geoffduncan Oh I tried so hard to like early prog like Genesis and Yes because of my friend but just didn’t get it - Genesis especially was so keyboard - Mellotron heavy that most of it bored me. But Emerson Lake and Palmer? Hell yeah that shit rocks. Roundabout-era Chris Squire? Oh yeah, no Geddy Lee without that Rickenbacker tone. Years later I began to appreciate the earlier work of those bands but it still isn’t as immediate as Rush or Floyd to me.
@samvarma @geoffduncan Ah but to each his own. I have a healthy appreciation for what all the prog artists accomplished in their time. Musicianship was so important and it shows in their craft.
@samvarma
I still haven’t cracked open Dream Theater. I remember seeing them do a cover of Highway Star and I was really impressed but also didn’t understand the “why.”
@NigelTufnel
I was a keyboard player before I took up guitar and bass, so players like Emerson, Wakeman, and Banks loomed large for me. (Though Vangelis loomed larger: see above re: weirdo). I find a lot of old Genesis very twee, but there’s an early live album that is pretty great. Phil Collins could be mistaken for a thrash drummer at a couple points.
neverbeaten@samvarma @NigelTufnel @geoffduncan
This is my main issue with IEMs. I hate them because it almost guarantees that the band is using backing tracks from the album and won’t likely deviate from the album performance.
I want every live performance to feel unique. Ephemeral. You had to be there.
That’s where the value in live performance comes from.
If I want to listen to the album, I prefer to do that comfortably at home without distractions.
@neverbeaten @NigelTufnel @geoffduncan Then I'm happy to make you aware that my band, while using IEM and tracks, runs the show off Ableton and we never play the same show twice. We are live reacting to the crowd in front of us, playing a mix of what they asked for and what is working
Ryan Hyde 🇺🇦🏳️⚧️🇵🇸@samvarma @neverbeaten @NigelTufnel @geoffduncan Yeah, I was gonna say this isn’t my experience with IEMs at all.
@neverbeaten @samvarma @NigelTufnel
Agreed with others: IEMs and backing tracks are different things. Saying EIMs virtually guarantee a band is using backing tracks is like saying bands that use drum risers have terrible sax players. :) There are instances where that is true, but it's not a strong correlation and it's definitely not causation.
I've been part of one act that used backing tracks in places—we also had to play in sync to film. (Ever wanted to play the music for old Warner Bros cartoons live? It was like that.) No IEMs, all stage wedges. My IEM use has all been to support silent (or near-silent) stages—where we use them the same way we'd use on-stage monitors—or special cases like theater productions were a singer could be on a balcony 50m from the band with no sight line.
Chancerubbage@neverbeaten @samvarma @NigelTufnel @geoffduncan
Almost everyone wearing in ear monitors is doing so for a private monitor mix and flexible movement on stage. And that’s it. A drummer -might- get a click. If it’s a dance act, it might be backing tracks.
Are there genres where the audience doesn’t care? Probably.
@Chancerubbage Please don't tell me I have to move on stage I'll get lost. ;)
Well, in ears are also good for voiding monitor wedge feedback.
In the early days of wireless mics, etc, wireless was really good at picking up police radio calls.
@Chancerubbage
So I learned from Spinal Tap!
The feedback point is good, although on a couple occasions I’ve wanted to get feedback on a silent stage and…welp.
These days there are automated EQs that will notch out monitor feedback as it happens these days.
In ears solved the problem sooner than digital mixers without a sound guy did
Oh, the spinal tap thing was real. Actually, all you needed sometimes to pick up police radio was an unshielded cable
@Chancerubbage
I'm so poor I can count the times I've played on a wireless rig with the thumbs of one foot. ;)
I'm so poor I can count the times I've played on a wireless rig with the thumbs of one foot. ;)
@geoffduncan Man I'm gonna have to dive into the yes stuff. Mostly I think about that clicky Bass sound, and owner of a lonely heart 🤣
@samvarma
Side six of Yesssongs (triple album!) was what sold me as a teenager. In grand prog tradition it's only two songs. The original sound quality isn't amazing (maybe it's been reissued? dunno). But I liked how each piece was kind of a dozen layered pieces ranging very widely in style, the band was winging it a lot (it's live!). As a guitar player you'll appreciate that the main guitar is a 175—I think Howe was rocking a Dual Showman at the time. He's always played without a net, warts and all.
Lyrically, Jon Anderson is an acquired taste. I never acquired that taste. I find myself paying more attention to Squire's harmonies. Choirboy, you can tell.